BKP + A8 - Anyone give this a shot?

[SrDeMaFp]

I've got a few mags and pups sitting around and got a day off tomorrow so, I think I might do some experimenting. All I've heard about the A8 has been nothing but good things so, as the title says - has anyone swapped out their mag in a BKP for an A8? If so, which pickup and what was the verdict? I also have a few other mags available and might just give them a shot too. Here's my list of goodies...

-Miracle Man (B)
-C-Bomb (B)
-C-Warpig (B)
-Rebel Yell (B)

-A2 (RC), A5 (RC as well as RC unoriented), A4 and A8.

-Mike

[Kiichi]

I would be carefull about messing around with BKPs, they are after all very finely tuned.
That said, if you need to do it, do it right so this might help a bit:

Really great post Tim... but what about Alnico 8?

I heard here and there that they are a good alternative to ceramic when you are looking for high output but a bit more "soul" if I may put it this way.

they're great to bring life for pickups that lack mids
sounds a bit brighter than alnico 5 and darker than a ceramic
tons of mids, specially low mids, which gives a very modern feel for some pickups
pickups that are already too hot winded and that already have lot of low mids can get a bit muddy, so it may improve some pickups and screw others
but i bet Tim can make even a pickup with refrigerator magnet and wound with guitar strings sound clear and awesome :lol:

I found this on metroamp forum:

"Actually, on the Alnico 8's, it quite the opposite. I learned about Alnico 8 from Lynn Collins several years ago.
They're an extremely sweet sounding magnet. Very sensitive, so they sustain for a very long time. You've got to lower them a bit further than Alnico 5, but once you find "the spot" there's nothing like 'em.
They're pretty expensive though, that's why I dropped them from my line of pickups.

Wolfe"

"I've used A8 fairly extensively and trust me, it's nothing like A5. It is much, much stronger, way more output, and has much more midrange, very full, while A5 tends to have a mid-scoop. The top end is a lot like A2, vintagey and sweet. Overall it combines the best qualities of ceramic, A2 and A5 without any of their weaknesses. To me, it's a very viable alternative to ceramics for a customer wanting a high-output pu with a naturally bright guitar who's sick of the harshness that ceramics sometimes have (depending on the wind and the guitar it goes in).

Its main weakness is the magnetic pull is very strong (maybe even stronger than ceramic) so you could never use it in a neck pu. You even have to back your bridge pu away from the strings a little more than normal because it will cut into the sustain just a touch. It has another semi-weakness in that the bass response is really huge -- not flabby, but not quite as tight as ceramic, at least to my ear -- but depending on the application, this is as likely to be a strength as a weakness.

I suppose you could degauss it a touch to tame it some, but it might lose some top end. I will try it at some point.

Another alternative is Alnico 6, but that's another story..."


"I'll throw out what I'm thinking.

Alnico 5 cast is 12,500 Gauss (flux) and 640 Oersteds (field intensity). The strength of the magnet is flux times field intensity. So the magnet strength is 8 million Gauss-Oersteds.

Alnico 8 cast is a lower 8,300 Gauss of flux, but is way up at 1650 Oerseteds of field intenisty. The magnet strength is 13.7 million Guass-Oersteds, or 71% stronger than Alnico V sintered, and 277% stronger than Alnico II sintered.

If the relationship between inductance/output and magnet/core strength given a stable dc resisttance were linear, a pickup with an alnico V magnet that - all else the same - gets a Alnico 8 magnet will have 71% more output. But I assume the relationship is not linear. I wonder what the relative relationship is."

"Certainly the A8 has a much stronger field. As mentioned above the field strength to output ratio is not linear though. In totally non scientific testing I would say your ear will hear a 10% to 15% output increase. You will also hear a fairly noticeable tone difference. More bite, no scooped mids and tighter bottom end. Somewhat like a ceramic but not harsh or ice picky."

Tim would disagree that A8 has none of the drawbacks of A5, A2 and ceramic. The thing is, BKPs with those standard magnets don't have the drawbacks that many other makers' pickups do. BKPs ceramic pups don't sound harsh and/or sterile, alnico 5 BKPs still sound tight and not scooped etc. There's a reason Tim chooses A5 and ceramic over A8 in the standard models. He has once said that A8 compresses the tone even more than ceramic and that sacrifices dynamics and organicness.

i think you didn't get what those guys said
magnets have a huge influence in the sound of a pickup
of course an alnico 5 pickup can sound middy and a ceramic can sound not harsh, but using specific winding patterns for that
those characteristics are used to describe how a "generic" pickup (with usual original paf style winding) is influenced by each type of magnet
if those characteristics didn't count, why the hell people would use different kinds of magnets?
from my short experience with alnico 8, i'd agree with every word and it doesn't mean that any alnico 8 pickup will be superior to any other pickup
each magnet and winding combination will result in a different tone and dynamic response
just a matter of taste if you like the final result or not

just a curiosity
i've read that eddie van halen used his 70's ibanez destroyer (explorer copy) on his first 2 albums
that guitar had a ibanez super 70 pickup, which was an alnico 8 PAF style humbucker
I don't hear anything special on those albums, but most guitarrists love that tone

[ericsabbath]

tried an alnico 8 bar in a holy diver after getting disappointed witht he stock diver on a gibson sg
the diver sounded amazing with the stock alnico 5 in 3 les pauls, but quite dead in the SG, as Tim warned me (still sounded great for leads, though)
the alnico 8 made it a lot louder, tighter and brighter, which was a good thing for that guitar, but the pickup also sounded much drier, different from the perfect balance with smooth response Tim achieved with the holy diver model
it was a different pickup

but I imagine some other model could sound pretty good
maybe an alnico 8 nailbomb would be interested
probably somewhere between the alnico 5 and the ceramic version

[SrDeMaFp]

I think first things first since the Rebel Yell is similar to a JB, I might toss an A8 in that and see if I dig it. In its current state, I like it but it could definitely use some more balls.

[Transcend]

Let me know how you get on with this ive been considering changing out some of my BKPS to have Neodymium magents.

[Alex]

I think the Alnico 8 is treated as a snake oil solution on the Seymour Duncan forum a lot.

If it was really as good as the metal kids on some forums are trying to make us believe, all the important/highly regarded pickup manufacturers would have models using Alnico 8 readily available. I think it is probably louder, darker and more compressed and sounds good to a certain, lets say "unsophisticated" ear. It sounds to me as if it is pretty much the opposite of Alnico IV, if you get what I mean.

[Madsakre]

if you wanna get an idea of how alnico 8 sounds like. then try the SD Alt8. Its an absolutely horrible pickup.

[ericsabbath]

the sh-5 sounds pretty good with alnico 8
better than stock, if you ask me
no BKP clarity, though