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Author Topic: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"  (Read 31600 times)

Afghan Dave

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2012, 07:44:01 PM »
Oh, please don't get me wrong... I'm 100% sure he means what he says and every tweek is a real improvement.

I just meant the video itself, not the content.  PDT_002

Why else make the video?
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MDV

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2012, 07:48:28 PM »
only thing i dont quite agree with is the idea of a guitar as purely subtracting potential string energy.  I think there is a certain amount of body/neck vibration fed back into the string which is also an important part of tone.

This is it though, isnt it? The string is capable of developing huge amounts of overtones, being a thin, linear piece of metal. The guitar, being a big clumsy bit of wood is capable of developing far fewer overtones. The string-guitar combination is a resonance feedback loop; initial excursions of the string excite resonances in the guitar, the guitars resonance feeds back to the string, and thats where the guitars tone happens; the string is forced to carry only the overtones allowed by the guitar; just the modes that its capable of resonating with, since in the guitar-string loop all overtones in the guitar and the string must be in phase

The way I see it, very simplified, is a circle. You can have standing waves on a circle. Half the circle is the  guitar from nut to bridge and half is the string, its a complete vibrational loop, and whats on the string half is only whats allowed on the guitar half. You cant have a situation there where theres a 10th mode on one half thats not on the other, and the guitar is the bottleneck.

Obviously the situation is a lot more complex than that, but its still generally true to say that the modes allowed on the string are the modes allowed by the guitar. I'd have thought that was relatively uncontroversial and struggle to see how the guitar can possibly add any sort of vibration that didnt start in the string, since its purely a resonator.

I've never been terribly impressed by the PRSes I've played, but in the general indications of the philosophy that hes getting at, hes completely right, the guitar is just subtractive, and the closest thing to objectively 'better' you can get is a guitar that transmits vibration most efficiently across the widest frequency range (to give you the most to work with down the line).

As far as tone being in the fingers....yeah, very much so, but I'll give you a stock strat, fender twin, 2x10, SM57 and a million years to get a close reproduction of the guitar sound off the black album ;) Do you need hetfield, or someone that can play a lot like him, as well? Yes. But even with the right player, you need a lot more besides.

MDV

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2012, 07:53:36 PM »
Oh, please don't get me wrong... I'm 100% sure he means what he says and every tweek is a real improvement.

I just meant the video itself, not the content.  PDT_002

Why else make the video?

Its marketing for sure. But at least its more sober and seems more honest and grounded in rationality than most. Your average guitar marketing campaign involves vast amounts of hyperbole and buzz words and nearly no content; this is at least sensible, and Paul clearly believes what hes saying. Even if he is being vague, hes saying more than most do in marketing. Give me that over Henry bigging up the firebird X as a music-changing revolution any day :)

Afghan Dave

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2012, 08:03:22 PM »
Luddite! The Robot guitar and baked maple are the future...

Stop living in the past...  PDT_028 PDT_030 PDT_037




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MDV

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2012, 08:04:48 PM »
:lol:

Stevepage

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #20 on: January 21, 2012, 09:05:01 PM »
You may not agree with PRS or not like PRS guitars but it's quite refreshing to see some one running a huge company like PRS and still have enormous love and enthusiasm in their product. Gibson/Henry whatshisface could learn a lot from Paul.

I just happen to love PRS  :lol:

Philly Q

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #21 on: January 21, 2012, 10:15:44 PM »
Oh, please don't get me wrong... I'm 100% sure he means what he says and every tweek is a real improvement.

I just meant the video itself, not the content.  PDT_002

Why else make the video?

I agree, it all comes across very awkward and slightly pompous - "We're here to talk about these 21 rules, but I'm not actually going to say what they are".... "a lot of people know about this now, so I can talk about it".

I couldn't quite understand why, if he formulated all these concepts ages ago, he didn't apply them from day one (or a least day two or three, once the company was established).  :?  Or maybe he has tried to apply them, but it's needed a lot of fine-tuning to make the reality fit the original idea.

But yes, his enthusiasm and dedication is impressive.

It does make you feel a bit like:  "Hmmm, my PRS is a few years old..... it must be cr@p because it hasn't got all these tweaks...."   :|
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Andrew W

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #22 on: January 22, 2012, 12:23:18 AM »
I know what you mean Philly but that said I'm always impressed when someone never rests on their laurels and continually tries to improve their product. Still think, at the moment, that the McCarty is the nicest but then I would say that.

Philly Q

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #23 on: January 22, 2012, 01:06:29 AM »
I think the new tuners with aluminium buttons are interesting.  Obviously weight reduction is the aim, but I wonder how the open-back design will hold up over time?
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Twinfan

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2012, 10:20:42 AM »
I think the new tuners with aluminium buttons are interesting.  Obviously weight reduction is the aim, but I wonder how the open-back design will hold up over time?

It's worked fine for acoustics and basses for many years  ;)

WezV

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #25 on: January 22, 2012, 10:36:56 AM »
I couldn't quite understand why, if he formulated all these concepts ages ago, he didn't apply them from day one (or a least day two or three, once the company was established).    Or maybe he has tried to apply them, but it's needed a lot of fine-tuning to make the reality fit the original idea.


i am assuming the 21 rules are not specific.  possibly more like general ideas about how each part should influence the system and the last 30 years have been about refining those parts to match his ideal

Tellboy

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #26 on: January 22, 2012, 10:38:47 AM »
Would I make myself unpopular if I dared to suggest that tone comes from your fingers, not from  a guitar ... or even from your pickups?

Form an orderly queue to stone me to death.

No stones from me Frank - look at my sig.

I have 2 PRS guitars (Studio and DGT) - love both of them but do not consider them to be the holy grail of guitar playing but just one of many factors which go to make up a good tone. There are times when I get what I consider is a good tone from my setup and the next day, with exactly the same settings, it can sound cr@p which is probably down to fingers/attitude. Some days I think if I can't get a decent sound with my gear I might as well put the lot on ebay and become a dustman. :(

I still however have a lot of respect for Paul and his guitars.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2012, 01:13:23 PM by Tellboy »
John Suhr - "Practice cures most tone issues"
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Philly Q

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #27 on: January 22, 2012, 10:39:44 AM »
I think the new tuners with aluminium buttons are interesting.  Obviously weight reduction is the aim, but I wonder how the open-back design will hold up over time?

It's worked fine for acoustics and basses for many years  ;)

True.... but my experience with those kind of tuners on acoustics and basses - admittedly limited, and not high-end stuff! - is that the tuners feel pretty stiff and creaky, you fight to get the guitar in tune, but once you're there it pretty much stays in tune.

I'm sure the PRS tuners are nothing like that, but with an open back they must be subject to dust and dirt getting in the works and fouling them up.

Electric guitars are used in very different environments, and generally subjected to a lot more stress and abuse than acoustics - a sealed, lubricated tuner just seems to make more practical sense (that said, I personally like vintage Kluson-types, or the Gotoh reproductions, best of all!)
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Philly Q

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #28 on: January 22, 2012, 10:44:05 AM »
I couldn't quite understand why, if he formulated all these concepts ages ago, he didn't apply them from day one (or a least day two or three, once the company was established).    Or maybe he has tried to apply them, but it's needed a lot of fine-tuning to make the reality fit the original idea.


i am assuming the 21 rules are not specific.  possibly more like general ideas about how each part should influence the system and the last 30 years have been about refining those parts to match his ideal

Yeah, you're probably right, but then "21" seems a very specific number for a list of general ideas!  You know, you could maybe say numbers 15 and 17 overlap a bit so perhaps you could combine them for a nice round number....  :P

Again, it's mildly irritating that he's prepared to talk about these "21 rules" but too precious to say what they are.
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WezV

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Re: The PRS "21 Rules Of Tone"
« Reply #29 on: January 22, 2012, 11:43:24 AM »

Again, it's mildly irritating that he's prepared to talk about these "21 rules" but too precious to say what they are.


sounds to me that its more like a historical and possibly quite personal document stating what he wanted to achieve and how he thought it should be done. 

it may be that some of them are blindingly obvious in an age where everyone is an expert. maybe he simply doesnt agree with the specifics of them all now, they still shaped the R&D and the company as we know it

possibly he just doesnt want the rest of the guitar building world cashing in on his ideas.  first you would see the other manufacturers listing approximately 20ish reasons there guitars are so good, then you would see buyers using the 21 rules to decide if a guitars is decent or a pile of cr@p

we know good guitars existed long before PRS, so we dont need his rules dictating how people think a guitar should be made