Returning Issue

[Slartibartfarst42]

I looked at this a while ago but couldn't come to any definite conclusion so I decided to shelve it for a while and come back to the issue later. Here I am again. The guitar concerned is a PRS SE Custom 24 and overall I really like the tone from the stock pups but there are times when I think it could have a bit more articulation. What I like about the stock pups is that the bridge is thick, warm, organic and versatile. It plays Rock and Metal well but also cleans up nicely so I can use it on clean tracks, Blues or Metal. The neck pup is warm, thick and creamy and again, is very versatile, going from clean to screaming solos. I'd like to keep all of those qualities but with greater articulation. What I like about the guitar compared to my Jackson, is that it gives some of that thick, warm sound I love in Les Pauls.

At first I asked Tim but he suggested a Cold Sweat for the bridge and while that does make some sense (I LOVE John Sykes' tone), having had one before, I think it will be a bit too bright and not thick enough. He also suggested a ceramic Nailbomb but having tried the Alnico Nailbomb before, I found it far too harsh and '90s Metal'. Perhaps the ceramic is different. To be honest, I can't think of much in the contemporary range that would do what I want except possibly the Holydiver. In the Vintage Hot range I wondered about the Emerald at first as I like the heavier Gary Moore tones but looking at the EQ it seems like it might be even brighter than the Cold Sweat. The only other one that struck me was the Abraxas, assuming it would stretch to the heavier Rock numbers. I'm at a bit of a loss. Basically I want more of that rich Gibson tone out of it. Think tones like Gary Moore and John Sykes.

As for the neck pickup, I'm open to suggestions. The Holydiver may be another option as I believe that is thick and creamy and again, the Emerald and Abraxas seemed possible.

[Dusty]

Ceramics are usually harsher sounding, aren't they?
I use the Abraxas in an SG and what I can say is has TONS of warmth and it is extremely versatile.
Definitely well suited for heavier sounds, too.

I have no experience with any of the other pickups. But the Abraxas rock like hell  :)

[Slartibartfarst42]

For thick, warm and articulate it seems to me like it should be either Holydiver or Abraxas. Any ideas and what about the neck?

[Telerocker]

Abraxas has PAF-dna, but is capable of doing more contemporary tones too. You can also think about Black Dogs.

[Slartibartfarst42]

So, for warm, thick and articulate tones with good note separation I need to be looking at either a Holydiver, Abraxas or Black Dog in the bridge. So I need the one that will work best in my PRS with the gear I have and be most versatile in playing from clean and Blues through to Rock and Metal. Once I've got that sorted out I can turn my attention to the neck pickup.

In case it affects anyone's view, I would have no problem with the Holydiver being best just because my Jackson has a Holydiver. If that really was the best option for the PRS I'd be tempted to transfer it over from the Jackson and try something new there.

[Brow]

I have a pair of Abraxas in my CU22 and it's an extremely versatile guitar.

With the right amp it can do cleans, slight OD/crunch, and heavier OD tones with ease and not sound out of place doing any of them.

It wouldn't be my 1st choice if I only played metal, but for a versatile set of pickups I'd look no further.

[Twinfan]

I think the Black Dog or the Emerald would the be the pickups to go for.  Black Dogs are closer to the vintage-y end, and Emeralds that bit hotter but not too bright.

I'd go for Black Dogs, as they'd be better for the lower gain stuff, and you can always add more gain/pedal for metal.  They're like a thicker, more polite PAF - not as raw as a Mule/Riff Raff.

I have BDs in a PRS Singlecut and love them.

[darkbluemurder]

I have no idea what PRS use in the SE models but my Custom came with a HFS in the bridge and a Vintage Bass in the neck. I have a Holydiver for the bridge and a Cold Sweat for the neck and they gave me increased articulation and less of that midrange nasalness on the bridge and of that mud in the neck. Yet they retained all qualities I wanted to retain.

I also have the Abraxas set but I don't use them as a set - they are in different guitars. The Abraxas bridge has a little less output and midrange than the HD and sounds a bit more open - great pickup. The Abraxas neck is warm, articulate and never muddy. Can't comment on the HD neck as I have never played one.

If I remember correctly there was a thread started by Sir Palmoid who replaced the PRS Artist pickups with an Abraxas set, then changed to the Holydiver set because he wanted a more modern tone. I am not sure whether he changed back to the Artist pickups, though.

Do you have any further information on your current pickups - DC reading, other specs?

Cheers Stephan

[Slartibartfarst42]

Thanks. As far as I can tell from the specification sheets, my guitar also uses an HFS and a Vintage Bass. Like you, I find that the neck pickup can get a touch muddy, though generally I do love its thick and creamy nature. For the bridge pup I can't say I've noticed a particularly nasal quality, just a slight lack of articulation at times. Like the neck pup, I do fundamentally like it because it can give a thick and warm distortion that does remind me a lot of a Gibson. What has surprised me about both pups is just how versatile they are. I play in a Rock covers band so I guess my sound is very Rock/Metal orientated, though in fairness, I do have my Jackson for that. It's so versatile that I actually use the PRS for more than half of our set. All of the lighter stuff is done on the PRS as well as a lot of the Rock stuff. I especially like using the PRS when I use a kinda Gary Moore tone with extra distortion.

I was initially thinking of the Holydiver because it seemed to me that the HFS must be quite a powerful pickup and though ceramic, I couldn't think of a ceramic pup in the Bareknuckle range that would give that thick, Gibson-like tone. The Holydiver seemed like the closest fit yet, despite me loving the Holydiver, I can't honestly say it's ever given me the versatility that I enjoy with the HFS. Of course, the different wood and construction of the Jackson may account for that. My thinking with the contemporary pickups thus far has been:

Warpig - Clearly not!
Miracle Man - Same
Holydiver - Has the thickness I like so has to be a contender IF it's versatile enough.
Painkiller - Too tight
Nailbomb - I REALLY want to like this because the description sounds ideal but when I tried an alnico version in my Jackson it didn't match the description at all. It was harsh and very 90s Metal.
Crawler - Sounds possible, though nobody has ever suggested it.
Aftermath - Too modern
Cold Sweat - Too bright and not thick enough.
Rebel Yell - Similar

I'm wary of the Vintage Modern range because the HFS is so obviously a modern pickup so surely they'd be drifting too far from where I want to be. I'm wary of the Black Dog because of the word 'aggressive' in the description and that makes me wonder if it would lack versatility. Having said that, the Abraxas does intrigue me. All of the warmth and smoothness of Alnico IV in a hot pickup. I imagine it should be good for those heavier Gary Moore tones but would it manage to get further than that?

Based on all of this I'd say the most likely candidates would be Holydiver, Crawler or Abraxas. Outside bets might be the Black Dog if it was less like its description or the Nailbomb if it was a lot more like its description and it would work better in the PRS than it did in my Jackson.

[Telerocker]

The Crawler and The Abraxas are close to each other. The Crawler just has a little more compression and a rounder topend. In a mahogany guitar I would favour Abraxas. I think Twinfan and other users can give a better comment on the Black Dogs then I can.

[Slartibartfarst42]

It seems there are two broad options for me here. The Holydiver will surely work well in the guitar and be closest in nature to the HFS that's in there at the moment but it would be a distinctly Rock guitar I believe and as I already have a Holydiver in my Jackson, I may then look at moving the Jackson to either a Miracle Man or Warpig. The other route would be to use the Abraxas in the PRS. I'm less sure of the results of this as I've never tried one myself but I'm guessing that it would give me a more versatile guitar but would give me a much smoother and more polite distortion than the HFS. Would that mean it would lose that thickly distorted quality I like from players like John Sykes? My instinct says yes, largely due to the alnico IV magnet as opposed to the ceramic in the HFS but conversely, if an Abraxas is a hotter Mule and a Mule will play Metal OK, why shouldn't an Abraxas? I just don't know.

I'm not sure what other realistic options exist. The Emerald possibly. Less powerful than the Abraxas but the AV magnet should give it more edge.

[Serratus]

When I read your first post my first thoughts were Abraxas or Black dog, so its interesting that others have said the same thing!
I have an Abraxas in the bridge of an alder guitar - very versatile, I think of it like a slightly hotter, fatter PAF style pickup. I tend to not like really hot or really low power pickups, and the Abraxas is right in that middle ground that I find  very versatile.
Then I think of the Black dog as an even thicker version of that style again. Still very versatile, perhaps even more so imho. I have a mahogany/maple guitar with a BD in the bridge and it is my go-to guitar for recording - if ever I cant quite get the sound I want I just change to that guitar and its there, whether thats a full-on rock sound or low gain.

I would say either will be great and are worth trying, it will just depend on your exact tastes and the guitar as to which you prefer and why - unfortunately you cant know that until you try one :)

[darkbluemurder]

The Crawler and Abraxas are close in output, not really in tone. The Crawler has more of that dark fat midrange whereas in the Abraxas it's a more open midrange. Both pickups have smooth highs, the Abraxas has more of them. The same applies to the neck pickups - Crawler is the hotter PAF tone, Abraxas is a T-Top but clearer in the bass and more sparkling highs.  

My feeling is that there is a bit of a conflict between wanting a warm thick Gibson-like tone and Gary Moore/John Sykes tones, which are bright to the border of being brash. No matter whether it's the Holydiver, the Crawler or Abraxas, I would recommend the Cold Sweat or the Rebel Yell if you are specifically after the John Sykes tone. My LP Custom with the Rebel Yell set does John Sykes (and Randy Rhoads) tones better than I will ever be able to. But after your experience with the A-Bomb I think the Rebel Yell is not for you. Of the three other pickups, the Abraxas would come closest to that because it is the brightest but is smooth and creamy at the same time. With the HFS I could not even get close to a John Sykes tone, and I don't really hear it in either the Crawler or Holydiver.

IMHO the Abraxas set is the most versatile of all sets mentioned and would do the Gary Moore/John Sykes tones reasonably well but if you want to stay close to the HFS/VB, go Crawler or Holydiver.

As regards the Jackson: don't put a Miracle Man in it. It is more aggressive than either the Holydiver or the A-bomb - it's a great pickup but I am afraid you won't like it. Stick with the HD there.

Cheers Stephan  

[ericsabbath]

alnico miracle man sounds great in the bridge
it's even thicker and warmer than the holy diver, but less mid-pokey
pretty fat and creamy

[Miracle Man]

alnico miracle man sounds great in the bridge
it's even thicker and warmer than the holy diver, but less mid-pokey
pretty fat and creamy

You mean putting a neck alnico V Miracle Man in the bridge position?