Anybody seen this article on Muslims by Australian Prime Minister? Any Opinions?

[Attica!]

I just wanted to say that I am not at all racist, I just found the article an interesting read. I'm interested in people's views and opinions

Prime Minister Kevin Rudd - Australia


... Muslims who want to live under Islamic Sharia law were told on Wednesday to get out of Australia , as the government targeted radicals in a bid to head off potential terror attacks..

Separately, Rudd angered some Australian Muslims on Wednesday by saying he supported spy agencies monitoring the nation's mosques. Quote:

'IMMIGRANTS, NOT AUSTRALIANS, MUST ADAPT. Take It Or Leave It. I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Bali , we have experienced a surge in patriotism by the majority of Australians. '

'This culture has been developed over two centuries of struggles, trials and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom'

'We speak mainly ENGLISH, not Spanish, Lebanese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language. Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society . Learn the language!'

'Most Australians believe in God. This is not some Christian, right wing, political push, but a fact, because Christian men and women, on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented. It is certainly appropriate to display it on the walls of our schools. If God offends you, then I suggest you consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.'

'We will accept your beliefs, and will not question why. All we ask is that you accept ours, and live in harmony and peaceful enjoyment with us.'

'This is OUR COUNTRY, OUR LAND, and OUR LIFESTYLE, and we will allow you every opportunity to enjoy all this. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about Our Flag, Our Pledge, Our Christian beliefs, or Our Way of Life, I highly encourage you take advantage of one other great Australian freedom, 'THE RIGHT TO LEAVE'.'

'If you aren't happy here then LEAVE. We didn't force you to come here. You asked to be here. So accept the country YOU accepted.'

Maybe if we circulate this amongst ourselves, WE will find the courage to start speaking and voicing the same truths.

[Matt77]

I like the take it or leave it stance taken by many senior australian politicians.

[Attica!]

I kind of agree. In UK (if thats where you're from), they should change laws because religion is getting ridiculous. There was a story where a couple went to Pakistan and the guys gf went out in a certain place without her face covered, and she was thrown in jail. She argued her religion was Christian, but that made it worse. The UK had to fight to get her deported.

This leads to my next point. I live in Oldham, and a few years ago they took down the Christmas Tree because of Muslims protesting. And if people will remember, we couldn't hang flags out of our window during the World Cup. Now I'm not racist, but do you agree that what I've just said is ridiculous?

[gordiji]

It's a bit odd that the likes of Rudd bleat about adherents of muslim when Oz was basically invaded by insane white men and effectively stolen.I've read articles saying some of the initial whites in Oz would lopp off the genitles off the
native Abbo's and watch them scream in agony.Pretty much the same in the US except it was the Injuns, but listening
to those who speak with pride how 'their' country was won is frightening.Funny old world. 

[tomjackson]

Based on that logic Australians should really be abiding by the Indienous people's ways.  People lived there for 60,000 years before Europeans settled there.

It's a fine line, you have to abide by the countries laws you are in but if you look at the 'stolen generations' case you can see that it is impossible to force people to live your way.

This is a can-of-worms thread, a 10 page heated debate is bound to follow!

[Attica!]

well Australia was originally a place where they sent all the prisoners lol

[Matt77]

I kind of agree. In UK (if thats where you're from), they should change laws because religion is getting ridiculous. There was a story where a couple went to Pakistan and the guys gf went out in a certain place without her face covered, and she was thrown in jail. She argued her religion was Christian, but that made it worse. The UK had to fight to get her deported.

This leads to my next point. I live in Oldham, and a few years ago they took down the Christmas Tree because of Muslims protesting. And if people will remember, we couldn't hang flags out of our window during the World Cup. Now I'm not racist, but do you agree that what I've just said is ridiculous?

Oldham has a lot of problems sadly.
My friend showed the footage he took from his camera van in the riots of 2001. (He was a camera man for sky news)
 It's sad how heated things still are more than 10 years on.

[nfe]

This leads to my next point. I live in Oldham, and a few years ago they took down the Christmas Tree because of Muslims protesting.

I'd be intrigued to see a reputable news article detailing this. If it happened, I'm sure there are swathes of writing on the topic from all the major UK papers and websites.

The "wanting to live under sharia" nonsense is stupid. Nobody moans about the Beth Din. It's cool for Jews to have their own law courts but not Muslims? Why? Their proscribed universal laws are virtually identical and they have no power on criminal acts, only civil. Only a tiny minority of Muslims anywhere want to use sharia as a basis for all law. Hell, only five or so out of the 50+ Muslim nations have sharia based law codes.

Any Australian politician has a brass neck talking about integration anyway. Maybe when they stop marginalising the indigenous people they'll have a leg to stand on.


Afghan, strictly speaking, I'm sure you hate Muslims, not Islam. The same as any sensible person would hate Christians, not Christianity. Or Jews, not Judaism. The faiths are generally pretty friendly when taken in context. It's the followers that are the issue.

Regarding it being a potentially "racist" issue. Well, it does fall under racial legislation in the UK at least. Religious groups are ethnicities, and ethnicities count as "races" in terms of race-related laws. Whether that should be the case or not is debatable, obviously.

[Attica!]

It was all over the news lol.

And it doesn't change the fact that our Town's Christmas Tree and decorations got took down about 4-5 years ago. We've had em up since though.

EDIT: It happened in 2001 as well my dad just told me. It was around the time the National Front happened inoldham. Found loads of old articles on it

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_Oldham_race_riots

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/1413444.stm

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1339366.stm

[dave_mc]

(a) i thought gillard was teh PM?

(b) the way he's talking about "if you don't like God, leave" could also be applied to atheists and agnostics.

(c) last time i checked, they didn't ask the indigenous australians if they could come

(d) so you should learn the language of the country you come to? How many australians speak an aboriginal language? (yes i'm well aware i don't speak irish but then i'm not spouting cr@p, either)

don't get me wrong- I have little time for religious extremism (of any religion- claiming only islam has extremists is ridiculous, we have the DUP here :lol: ), but i have little time for reactionary bullshiteeee either.

EDIT: australians speak english? o_O

:lol: :D

(obviously that's a joke, i'm well aware i have a regional accent too)

\/ if someone makes stupid points that are clearly illogical and hypocritical, i reserve the right to call them on it (not the TS, i mean the ex-aussie PM). to the best of my knowledge, i've never started a political thread myself.

[Frank]

Can we go back to discussing which picks we all use please?

[Attica!]

(a) i thought gillard was teh PM?

(b) the way he's talking about "if you don't like God, leave" could also be applied to atheists and agnostics.

(c) last time i checked, they didn't ask the indigenous australians if they could come

(d) so you should learn the language of the country you come to? How many australians speak an aboriginal language? (yes i'm well aware i don't speak irish but then i'm not spouting cr@p, either)

don't get me wrong- I have little time for religious extremism (of any religion- claiming only islam has extremists is ridiculous, we have the DUP here :lol: ), but i have little time for reactionary bullshiteeeeeeee either.

EDIT: australians speak english? o_O

:lol: :D

(obviously that's a joke, i'm well aware i have a regional accent too)

I just wish everyone could peacefully co-exist. And you have a very good point about the Aboriginies (or how you spell it). I hate racism. I've got 2 mates who died from it back in the 2001 riots, just for dropping off a DVD at the rental place, and another with brain damage who luckily survived.I don't care the race, religion, country; but anybody who inflicts violence on an innocent person in the name of religion should be shot

[dave_mc]

oh i agree, i don't like violence either

we have a fair bit of religio-political based violence here ;)

[MisterMuncher]

Kevin Rudd never actually said this at all. Some other Aussie Politicians have said bits of it, here, there and everywhere, but in reality, it's an agglomeration of mined quotes and spun sugar.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/australia.asp

...and it's a load of old c--k.

Also, the idea of Islam as monolithic and only true when it's militant is just $%&#ing silly.

[Attica!]

Anyways...on a lighter note...Which pick is your Holy Religion? lol