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Author Topic: Minimum Booze Pricing  (Read 50078 times)

nfe

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Minimum Booze Pricing
« on: March 24, 2012, 12:45:23 PM »
Now that it's on the cards for those Brits not lucky enough to reside in Scotland. What are folks thoughts? Is it going to solve all our alcohol issues by stopping people getting smashed at home before going out to start fights and reduce alcohol-related health issues en masse or is it outrageously short-sited, condescending, specifically targeting the poor and likely to exacerbate the health and social issues it moots to provide an answer to?

You can wager which side I sit on :lol:

Matt77

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #1 on: March 24, 2012, 12:59:06 PM »
Hopefully it gets people to use their imagination and do something fun that doesn't involve getting drunk on such a regular basis. Ask me this 5 years ago though, I would have been kicking off about taxing the poor etc.

dave_mc

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #2 on: March 24, 2012, 01:00:03 PM »
i was thinking about this last night, and while i agree it probably is targeting the poor, looking at it from the other angle you could say that they don't care if rich people die from alcohol-related disease :lol: So it's liable to offend almost everyone.

i don't drink at all, but i don't agree with it. because (a) it's sorta a sin tax, and while i'm not sure anyone has the moral authority to introduce one, I really think politicians would be well towards the bottom of the list of those who do, (b) i don't see why people who can drink responsibly should have to pay more and (c) those who really do have a problem are still going to drink way too much except now they're gonna be poorer, so it's going to adversely affect them even more (and their families).

Sailor Charon

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #3 on: March 24, 2012, 01:10:50 PM »
Can't say I agree with it either. It won't stop people drinking. And how much tax does the government get from beer and so on anyway?
Oh yes, and having 3 pints in an evening once a month does not mean you have a drink problem. [Apparently 6 units in an evening is a binge if you're a woman. Nonsense.

Muttley

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #4 on: March 24, 2012, 01:18:21 PM »
On the one hand I think this is bad, and personal responsibility should be taught as a much higher priority in school.  You can't trust most parents to do this from the exposure I've had to other parents of young kids since becoming a parent myself,

On the other hand, I can't help but wonder if my sister might be still alive if she couldn't have afforded to buy as much booze.  :(

nfe

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #5 on: March 24, 2012, 01:40:50 PM »
My main concern is that it'll be completely ineffective regarding most of the issues we have with alcohol. The guys out fighting on Saturday nights aren't generally on the poverty line and they're already the folks drinking in expensive city centre clubs and the alcoholics are still going to drink, perhaps simply stealing it.

It doesn't have any positives that I can see. But it punishes folks who just want to buy a crate of beer for a summer BBQ.

MDV

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2012, 01:59:45 PM »
meh. I drink and smoke, and am well aware of the option not to. I generally choose to ignore it.

Decisions like this might be rationalised under the guise of reducing consumption by increasing cost, but the fact is its relying on steady consumption to generate greater revenue. All else is spin.

As to how it would affect our alcoholic culture, who can say? I'm inclined to think that people that are ####!!s under the influence of booze were ####!!s beforehand as well, and any social problems we have that are connected to alcohol are not created by alcohol. Youre responsible for your actions regardless of blood-alcohol level. Most people seem to get that. Some dont. Making it more expensive will not fix that. I'm quite sure our powers that be realise this too.

Toe-Knee

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #7 on: March 24, 2012, 02:34:15 PM »
This doesnt bother me much as i very rarely drink but when i do i have 3-4 pints in a pub and the price doesnt bother me at all.

im generally paying around £4 a pint anyway because i only drink peroni or bachus framboise when im out.

The best way to regulate it would be to have only one place as such that is able to sell alcohol outside of pubs/clubs

And then this place is regulated in such a way that people have to register and get a card in order to purchase the alcohol and theyre only allowed a certain quota.

I'm not saying that should be done but its the only way to solve issues such as binge drinking and general health related issues.

And to stop things being stolen the alcohol should be kept out of the "store front" and be selected from a menu type system and it is then brought out from the back somehow (a conveyor belt would be cool)

But again this is all coming from someone who doesnt really drink unless its a special occasion as i hate the effects it has on me even a single pint can leave me feeling less than par for a few days it just doesnt agree with my body.

I also no longer smoke but even if id did i think that tobacco should be a LOT more expensive than it is as ive only been quit since just before i got diagnosed with type 1 diabetes last october and i already feel a lot healthier... I do however miss smoking as it was something i did because i enjoyed rather than because i was addicted.
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nfe

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #8 on: March 24, 2012, 02:45:56 PM »
I don't think any type of prohibition or regulation makes much odds to use/abuse. Stopping "binge" drinking is an educational and cultural issue, not one of cost and availability.

Toe-Knee

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #9 on: March 24, 2012, 02:50:49 PM »
I don't think any type of prohibition or regulation makes much odds to use/abuse. Stopping "binge" drinking is an educational and cultural issue, not one of cost and availability.

That is true. I think it would help if it wasnt as readily available.

Especially when you look at places like lidl where you can get 20 bottles of lager for £9
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Afghan Dave

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2012, 03:41:32 PM »
I have been quite involved in lobbying against this farce of legislation - it isn't a "tax" as the extra money goes to the retailer!

All the above criticisms are correct and I could elaborate.

The Binge drinking Crisis is a Daily Mail creation more than anything. The British consumption of alcohol is at one of its lowest levels EVER! Much less than most European countries.

What we will get is a growth in illegal stills & deadly counterfeit Vodka which will kill and blind the poor in an instant. This has already started to happen.

The NHS stats have been rigged for years (this has been admitted too but not publicised).

Example:
I drink 5 pints sat quietly watching TV at home and then the ceiling falls down on top of me = I'm registered as admitted to hospital with an alcohol related incident.

Don't think this will stop at 40p!

40p won't work and then instead of repealing it we will get calls from all the puritans for 45/50/60 etc...

Smokers warned ya, people ignored them, now drinkers, next high fat food.... just wait.

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nfe

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2012, 04:08:50 PM »
The British consumption of alcohol is at one of its lowest levels EVER!

The NHS stats have been rigged for years (this has been admitted too but not publicised).

Example:
I drink 5 pints sat quietly watching TV at home and then the ceiling falls down on top of me = I'm registered as admitted to hospital with an alcohol related incident.

Got any links to information on this? It'd be right handy for ongoing debate on other forums.

Afghan Dave

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #12 on: March 24, 2012, 04:41:30 PM »
Two of my friends are pretty much the experts on the subject & have all their sources linked and detailed.

Pete Brown (great writer)

http://petebrown.blogspot.co.uk/

Chris Snowdon (fact master, puritan myth debunker general)

http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/medical-temperance.html

Main blog:
http://velvetgloveironfist.blogspot.co.uk/

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FELINEGUITARS

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #13 on: March 24, 2012, 04:41:59 PM »
When I was younger you could only buy alcohol in an off license and a pub.
Yes there were often fights at closing time , but generally it was harder to buy booze

Off licenses were only open certain hours usually and our local ones were well run & really kept more of a watchful eye on who was buying what and suchlike - a bit like a responsible pub landlord who refuses to serve a drinker once they are past their limit.

Now every flipping shop has gotten a license to sell booze (making lots of dosh for local council from sales of licenses), all the proper off-licenses have gone, and you see some people buying booze more at 9am in the morning.
We have a 10-20 convenience stores/newsagents 2 Tescos, 2 Sainsburys etc in the mile stretch of road that I live on - all selling booze. Some barely sell much else it seems, and often they are competing so hard against each other to sell that the prices do seem cheaper than they were 20 years ago.

I think this is one difference, the other being that so many folks get tanked up BEFORE they go out to save money and still get falling over drunk at the pub/bar/club.

I also notice the change in women's drinking habits more now and the effect it has
My ex used to go through 2-3 bottles of red wine a night if she went out and she certainly became a nasty hostile piece of work as the evening went on, and she was buying booze that certainly was more than the 40p per unit limit.

So price isn't anything more than attacking the poor in my opinion - from millionaire MPs who have no idea of the lives of those outside their circle.
I'm a total lightweight and barely drink at all , so I'm not really bothered by the price but I do wonder if they know what they are doing
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MDV

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Re: Minimum Booze Pricing
« Reply #14 on: March 24, 2012, 04:44:16 PM »

"If you make a society foolproof, you get a society only fit for fools"

+1 to your post in general, but this is a great quote, who is it?