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Author Topic: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?  (Read 8869 times)

webmaestro

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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #15 on: April 06, 2012, 08:35:08 PM »
You know, I'm driving myself a little crazy over this, so I'm just going to take the guitar to a tech (I found a reputable one about 2hrs away) and let him worry about it. That's what they get paid for. I'll give him the wiring diagram, state my desired wiring, and point out the magnet thing... but beyond that I'll let him work his magic. I'm sure he'll call if he has problems. He may laugh this off as a non-issue.
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Attica!

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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #16 on: April 06, 2012, 08:45:06 PM »
I'd still message Tim explaining what you are doing, as this is a Custom pickup, with 3 custom sized magnets, specially for this pickup. So your tech will most probably never have seen a pickup like this. Like I said, ask Tim to give you as much info, to forward onto your tech. After that, if he has experience with pickups, there shouldn't be a problem :)

Philly Q

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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2012, 10:34:41 PM »
Is this the wiring diagram you're wanting to use?

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/downloads/schematics/general/humbuckers/2_hum__ibanez_style_5_way_switch__1vol_1tone_.pdf


I'm not 100% sure about this, so I apologise if it's wrong:

Although it says the neck pickup magnet needs to be reversed, it would also work if the bridge pickup magnet was reversed (but not both!).  Basically, you want the pickups arranged so that coils of opposite magnetic polarity are facing each other. 

Since you're not going to dismantle the pickup and physically reverse the magnet, you can turn the bridge pickup through 180 degrees.

Unfortunately this means the "wrong" coil will be turned off in position 2 on the switch.  To get round this, reverse the connections of the Red and Black wires on the bridge pickup (leave Green, White and Bare as they are).

After doing that:

- Positions 1, 4 and 5 will definitely work - so you'll have your parallel wiring on the neck pickup.
- I'm pretty sure position 2 will work as it should, and be hum-cancelling.
- Not totally sure about the middle position, position 3 - I think it'll work.... but the pickups may be out of phase.


Sorry I can't give a more definitive answer.  That's what I'd do myself, then if there was a problem I'd resolve it by trial and error....
 
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Attica!

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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2012, 10:47:46 PM »
Is this the wiring diagram you're wanting to use?

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/main/downloads/schematics/general/humbuckers/2_hum__ibanez_style_5_way_switch__1vol_1tone_.pdf


I'm not 100% sure about this, so I apologise if it's wrong:

Although it says the neck pickup magnet needs to be reversed, it would also work if the bridge pickup magnet was reversed (but not both!).  Basically, you want the pickups arranged so that coils of opposite magnetic polarity are facing each other.  

Since you're not going to dismantle the pickup and physically reverse the magnet, you can turn the bridge pickup through 180 degrees.

Unfortunately this means the "wrong" coil will be turned off in position 2 on the switch.  To get round this, reverse the connections of the Red and Black wires on the bridge pickup (leave Green, White and Bare as they are).

After doing that:

- Positions 1, 4 and 5 will definitely work - so you'll have your parallel wiring on the neck pickup.
- I'm pretty sure position 2 will work as it should, and be hum-cancelling.
- Not totally sure about the middle position, position 3 - I think it'll work.... but the pickups may be out of phase.


Sorry I can't give a more definitive answer.  That's what I'd do myself, then if there was a problem I'd resolve it by trial and error....
 

I mentioned this before, and I'm pretty certain that flipping the pickup and just wiring it back to front would be like turning the number "8" upside down. PLus it's the magnets inside that have to have the polarity reversed, so it would literally be the same pickup. I could be totally wrong mind. Think of the Dimarzio Crunch Lab for example, Petrucci uses it with the bar faceing both ways depending on the guitar.

I think you're right about the bridge being able to have the polarity reversed, but Tim seems to always say he'll reverse the polarity of the neck. Maybe there's a reason there? It could be for the Series/Parallel option to work also, but I have no idea about this, it may all be down to the slug (inner) coils. But it seems to say on the diagram that the neck pickup must be reversed. Let us know about this when Tim gets back to you as I'm quite interested in knowing this myself.

I think regarding the phase issue in position 3, that's just the way the wires are wired up, not the actual problem with the magnet.

Also I think I have some very good news. Flipping the polarity in the neck pickup may be easier than first thought. The Bridge is the one with the 3 custom sized ceramic magnets, whereas the neck is only alnico and most likely won't contain anything too fancy, so fingers crossed :)

Philly Q

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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2012, 11:35:08 PM »
I mentioned this before, and I'm pretty certain that flipping the pickup and just wiring it back to front would be like turning the number "8" upside down. PLus it's the magnets inside that have to have the polarity reversed, so it would literally be the same pickup. I could be totally wrong mind. Think of the Dimarzio Crunch Lab for example, Petrucci uses it with the bar faceing both ways depending on the guitar.

Flipping the pickup and NOT wiring it back to front would have no effect.

Switching the Red and Black wires changes the phase relationship of the two pickups (whether or not you rotate the pickup).

With a "normal" humbucker, the screw coil has South polarity and the slug coil has North polarity (or the other way round, it doesn't really matter).  Wired as a pair in the normal fashion, the two North coils are on the inside, facing each other and the two South coils are on the outside.

In this Ibanez wiring setup, we want the two inside coils to have opposite polarity so they're hum-cancelling when both pickups are split.  Rotating one pickup 180 degrees achieves this (magnetically), but doesn't change anything electrically - in position 2 on the switch you then have one inside coil active, and one outside coil active.  To fix that, you switch round the Red and Black wires.


Now, I'm OK with that, but....


I'm still not sure about the phase relationship thing, because as well as the magnetic polarity there's another factor, the direction each coil is wound on the pickup (think of a Strat set, the middle pickup is RW/RP - not just reverse polarity, but reverse wind too).

If the pickups do turn out to be out of phase, you might need to turn the wiring of the bridge pickup "inside out"..... i.e.  use Red and Black as the coil-split wires, Green as hot and White as ground (or vice versa).  I think that would give the "reverse wind".  But I'm not sure if it's necessary.

As I said, if I was doing this I'd use trial and error until I got it right.  But I can't expect someone else to do that.  :lol:
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Attica!

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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2012, 11:47:42 PM »
Come to think of this, I want to get a Crunch Lab/Liquifire again and have it with Ibanez 5-Way wiring. Anybody know where to get a RP Liquifire? :/ Might just have to settle for another HSH setup, I just hate the height of the single coil on my Ibanez S Series :(

Philly Q

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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #21 on: April 07, 2012, 12:09:33 AM »
I just wanted to add:  I'm sure you can make this wiring scheme work with any two humbuckers (so long as they have 4-conductor wiring!)

The main reason for physically "flipping" the magnet in one of the pickups is that most people want to keep the traditional look of screw coils on the outside, slug coils on the inside.

With the Aftermaths, that's not an issue because both coils look the same, so it's just a matter of figuring out the wiring.  Easier said than done, I know.
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Copperhead

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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #22 on: April 18, 2012, 07:15:09 PM »
You can just physically just rotate the pickup and fix it down the other way , but you'll have to turn the wiring colour codes around on the plan to make it work right and that is what sort of fries my brain - hence get an answer from Tim.



Rotating the pickup does not change the polarity
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Toe-Knee

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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #23 on: April 18, 2012, 09:18:31 PM »
You can just physically just rotate the pickup and fix it down the other way , but you'll have to turn the wiring colour codes around on the plan to make it work right and that is what sort of fries my brain - hence get an answer from Tim.



Rotating the pickup does not change the polarity

You need to also swap the red & black wires i believe
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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #24 on: April 23, 2012, 12:04:52 AM »
You can just physically just rotate the pickup and fix it down the other way , but you'll have to turn the wiring colour codes around on the plan to make it work right and that is what sort of fries my brain - hence get an answer from Tim.



Rotating the pickup does not change the polarity

No but it puts the north and south polarity coils where you need them to be
You have to totally invert the wiring to make it work as well, which is what I said
And unless there is a diagram or guide it may take a little head-scratching.
It may  be that you totally invert the colour scheme from normal convention  - such that you will view the green and white wires as the hot and earth, and the black and red become seen as the coil tap point/series connection for the two coils

Ultimately you are trying to get each position to be in phase and hum cancelling

It is always simpler to think ahead and order the pickup with a magnet flip, or to be willing to do the mag flip (or have someone willing to do it for you (harder in a covered pickup)
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metale

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Re: "Neck pickup magnet must be reversed..." WHAT?
« Reply #25 on: October 07, 2012, 03:58:26 PM »
Sorry for digging this up, but I have a related question which I don't think justifies another similar thread.

I have an Ibanez with 2 humbuckers and a 5 way switch. I want to install a neck cold sweat on each position (screws toward the neck on the neck position, screws toward the bridge on the bridge position, so the one on the bridge position will be flipped). Will just be needed to reverse wires, or will one of them still need to be opened and the magnet messed with?
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