Blackhawks????

[Slartibartfarst42]

I'm not particularly struck on the looks but I am intrigued by the versatility they seem to have. Other pickups from BKP that we associate with such extreme Metal styles aren't often seen as being as versatile as other pups in the range but these seem to do everything. I'd be very interested to hear how they'd sit in a maple neck-thru doing 80's Metal and how they compare to the Holydiver in that regard.

The other thing that stikes me about the official release of this pickup is something that was discussed on the forum a week or so ago - output levels. I think most people, right or wrong, use the DC resistance as a broad measure of power but this pickup especially destroys that approach. I maintain that output figures based on the same setup used for the sound clips would be very useful indeed.

[TheyCallMeVolume]

Yeah, I've really not seen a pickup with such low output that can be so heavy, very cool stuff.

[jjcharvel]

I think most people, right or wrong, use the DC resistance as a broad measure of power but this pickup especially destroys that approach.

Does it mean that the Blackhawks are high output pickups ?

[ericsabbath]

Yeah, I've really not seen a pickup with such low output that can be so heavy, very cool stuff.

maybe because that's not low output?  :lol:

[DoomBuggi]

I think most people, right or wrong, use the DC resistance as a broad measure of power but this pickup especially destroys that approach.

Does it mean that the Blackhawks are high output pickups ?

No.  On paper on a meter, it looks like it is low output.  But because of the type of magnets, and their design, they pack a greater punch to the nuts.

[Philly Q]

Let's say it again:  "DC resistance" does not equal "output".  :roll: :P

[Slartibartfarst42]

Let's say it again:  "DC resistance" does not equal "output".  :roll: :P

And that's exactly my point; DC resistance does not equate to output but most people seem to make that mistake, which only highlights the importance of BKP starting to provide output figures for comparison.

[DoomBuggi]

Let's say it again:  "DC resistance" does not equal "output".  :roll: :P

And that's exactly my point; DC resistance does not equate to output but most people seem to make that mistake, which only highlights the importance of BKP starting to provide output figures for comparison.

I can see your point, but I think it is more of people educating themselves further.

[TheyCallMeVolume]

I'll bite.....what's the difference?

[Telerocker]

Let's say it again:  "DC resistance" does not equal "output".  :roll: :P

Yep 

[DoomBuggi]

Correct me if I am wrong, because surely I am not expert;

DC measures the resistance of Direct Current the winds can take.  The more winds, the Higher the DC rating.  Output is how loud it sounds.  Generally it is thought that the Higher DC rating a pickup has, the more output it has.  However this is flawed due to other factors, such as magnet types, pole piece type, ect.

 With that being said, just buy the damn things, and see for yourself.  No matter how much you read about something, you will never know anything about it unless you experience it first hand.

 Cheers

[MDV]

Correct me if I am wrong, because surely I am not expert;

DC measures the resistance of Direct Current the winds can take.  The more winds, the Higher the DC rating.  Output is how loud it sounds.  Generally it is thought that the Higher DC rating a pickup has, the more output it has.  However this is flawed due to other factors, such as magnet types, pole piece type, ect.

 With that being said, just buy the damn things, and see for yourself.  No matter how much you read about something, you will never know anything about it unless you experience it first hand.

 Cheers

Ok then ;)

Pickup output is affected by two main factors: magnetic field strength and the number of turns on each coil. (or the coil for SCs).

DC resistance is a rough estimation of the total length of the wire, and therefore a very hamfisted effort at estimating the number of turns. The DC resistance is also affected by the wire gauge; per unit length thicker wire has lower DC resistance. A pickup can have low DCR with thick wire and powerful magnets and still be a very hot pickup. Likewise, a pickup can have very high DCR with thin wire and weak magnets and be low output.

Other factors like pole piece type are influences, but they are to do with the efficiency of transmission of the magnetic field to the strings, and come under the blanket heading 'magnetic field strength' since its the flux density that the strings experience that matters.

[Slartibartfarst42]

In which case, don't bother giving out DC ratings, wire type or magnet type either - just buy it and see for yourself.

In all seriousness, I do see what you mean but a BKP is a lot of money and as a result I don't think it's unreasonable to expect people to investigate their purchase as much as possible before parting with cash. Why should a BKP customer be content with less information than a DiMarzio customer when the DiMarzio or Seymour Duncan can be had for £60 while a BKP is upwards of £100. On this forum we are continually asked about how 'hot' a pickup is and we talk about that ourselves too but we're not talking about DC resistance; we're talking about output. The DC resistance figures are approximate but give an indication at least and I see no reason why output figures can't do exactly the same. The reality is that people think of pickups in terms of power and while we may realise that DC resistance doesn't equate to power, I think most people out there don't. Generally speaking that's fine as for the most part, the pickups in the range that have the highest DC resistance are the most powerful but here we have a pickup with a vintage DC resistance and there's going to be a lot of people out there who simply won't believe that the Black Hawks have anything like enough power to live with active pickups from EMG, Seymour Duncan or DiMarzio. Like it or not, people want to know about power in a pickup and like it or not, a lot of people simply aren't going to believe a Black Hawk has a lot of power and certainly aren't going to part with all that money just to try it.

[DoomBuggi]

Correct me if I am wrong, because surely I am not expert;

DC measures the resistance of Direct Current the winds can take.  The more winds, the Higher the DC rating.  Output is how loud it sounds.  Generally it is thought that the Higher DC rating a pickup has, the more output it has.  However this is flawed due to other factors, such as magnet types, pole piece type, ect.

 With that being said, just buy the damn things, and see for yourself.  No matter how much you read about something, you will never know anything about it unless you experience it first hand.

 Cheers

Ok then ;)

Pickup output is affected by two main factors: magnetic field strength and the number of turns on each coil. (or the coil for SCs).

DC resistance is a rough estimation of the total length of the wire, and therefore a very hamfisted effort at estimating the number of turns. The DC resistance is also affected by the wire gauge; per unit length thicker wire has lower DC resistance. A pickup can have low DCR with thick wire and powerful magnets and still be a very hot pickup. Likewise, a pickup can have very high DCR with thin wire and weak magnets and be low output.

Other factors like pole piece type are influences, but they are to do with the efficiency of transmission of the magnetic field to the strings, and come under the blanket heading 'magnetic field strength' since its the flux density that the strings experience that matters.

I was waiting for that MDV.  Thanks for the bitch-slap,  PDT_002 as well as the illumination on the topic.  It is something that I certainly wish to improve my understanding in.

[MDV]

True, slarti.

Its not even as simple as magnitude of output either. Once sound hits the human ear, all bets are off. Overtone/harmonic content, transients/dynamics and EQ balance all affect how 'hot' we perceive a pickup to be, in hearing it, and in playing with it (not the same thing/experience).

I have no clue at all how hot a blackhawk is, and since from the clips on the site a c-pig doesnt seem that much hotter than a cold sweat (something contradictory with my experience) I'm not placing any bets on its output based on what we have heard so far, save that if Tim says its Hot, its Hot. Hes not led me astray before. (Though I most likely wont be getting one, not terribly interested, but we shall see).