NPD & NAD (BKP and Orange Content)!!!

[itamar101]

HEYYYYYY!!!!!!
You may have seen my very long thread a while ago about which BKPs to get for my beloved Gibson Les Paul Studio and I ended up getting an Emerald Neck & Holy Diver Bridge and I'll just say that it is EXACTLY what I want. No compromises.
I also completely changed my electronics to BKP electronics.
2 BKP CTS 550k Pots for Volume.
2 CTS 500k Push-Pull Tone Pots
2 Jensen 22n Capacitors.

As well as all of this I managed to spoil myself with a brand new Orange TH30H & Orange PPC212 Closed Back (Made in England).
My rig now sound absolutely stunning!

Ok, to the review:
I was worried that the pickups would sound too dark in a Les Paul going into an already dark-ish amp but the 550k/500k pots sure did the job well!
The pickups aren't dark at all, they're actually quite bright (not at all too bright though, I get excactly the tone that I wanted!), and they're SO articulate. It's actually crazy, they're more articulate than my stock SSS strat or the Gibson P94T that i had in my Les Paul beforehand!

When I first heard the Emerald Neck on the clean channel I got such a monster boner that even the straightest of straight people would turn gay to have buttsex with me Lol. Ok, enough of the overly horny metaphors.
The Emerald Neck has beautiful cleans and on high gain I can get a sound very reminiscent of Parisienne Walkways by Gary Moore (RIP). The lead tone area really great and smooth and it sounds pretty damn good coil-split as well. In fact, I like it coil tapped more than I like many proper single coils that I've heard. Even if it isn't meant to be one because, after all, It's still half an Emerald. And half doesn't imply that it's half as good, it simply implies that it is physically half the pickup!
Coil-split I can get it very close to an Andy Timmons sort of tone. Really Nice.

The Holy Diver is the main man though because I have always been a bridge pickup guy. And lets just say... Boy, does this deliver!!!! This is one mean, ballsy pickup and artificial harmonics fly from it as if they're the same as any other note. At the same time this pickups is clean and articulate and cleans up really, really nicely. I mean it. In the 3rd gain stage of of 4 on the lead channel on Orange's highest gain amplifier (Orange TH30/100, I'll get to it later) I only had to roll the the guitars volume down to 5 to get really sweet cleans and on 7 I got a really nice gritty clean sound. Picking dynamics are great too (all of this dynamics stuff applies to both pickups) and when playing parisienne walkways with the emerald i good get from clean, clean soulful notes to the full on Hard Rock/Blues distortion used in the song just with the use of my pick!! I've to give some of the credit to my beast new amp though. The pickups can't possibly do this on their own!

Back to the holy diver. Really thick, smooth, responsive and angry. Not too saturated at all and certainly not too open. It is just really at home doing 80s metal and classic rock/hard rock and stuff. It's great for heavy metal to though and has really full bass response and midrange. Very tasty indeed and the coil-split sounds even better than that of the emerald (probably because of the higher output) and it sound just like a real bridge single coil should except even more articulate, responsive and slightly more aggressive!! BUT... the coil-split sounds just get better.

The middle position!
This is the FIRST time that I have ever found use of the middle position in a guitar!! The middle position has already established itself as my high gain Rythm position. I swear, I have never ever found a good sound in a guitar prior to this whether it be a three pickup strat or 2 pickup les paul or hell, even 3 pickup Les Paul!
The way that I would describe this sound it... the guitar is essentially using the Holy Diver Bridge for the base tone and then using the Emerald Neck to round of the highs and give it a slightly warmer but equally as aggressive tone.

And here's my favourite coil-split position and probably my 2nd favourite position of them all: Middle position with both pickups coil-split. This sounds extremely similar to a Telecaster's bridge pickup. I was very pleasantly surprised. It's very twangy and bright although it could be brighter to get spot on. But I swear, if I gave you an unlabelled clip you would've though that it was a Telecaster! I can get really cool funk tones. Similar to RHCP's cover of higher ground in which John Frusciante (AKA, the greatest guitarist to ever walk the face of the earth) uses his beautiful 1950s Tele. Please don't argue over my comment about John Frusciante, everyone has different opinions. I just felt the need to pay my respects to him their, Lol.

I don't have much to say about the Middle position with one pickup coil-split and the other not. The pickup that hasn't been coil-split just overpowers the one that has therefore rendering the position to sound very similar to the standard Bridge or Neck positions depending on which pickup has been coil-tapped. Maybe some messing around with guitar volumes will bring something out in those positions. I've yet to try it though.

Oh. I forgot to mention that with the tone turned down I get very nice jazz tones and my guitar sound slightly reminiscent of a semi-hollowbody.
My Les Paul sounds so good and is so versatile that I am sure that I wont be looking for a new one for a long, long time. Bring on the Fender Classic Player Baja Telecaster! :D

Ok, time for a very quick review of my wonderful new Orange TH30!
Most thing have been said already but anyway...
Very limited controls which may bother some people but not me because I know exactly what sound I want and I know that the Orange TH30 is the only amp that will deliver that sound for under £1500 (Including cab).
The shape control is really nice and make a much bigger difference than a standard 3-Band EQ, IMHO.
Oh... Specs.
4 Shuangang 12AX7Cs (They've really got it spot on this time round, much better than their two previous attempts at 12AX7s).
4 Shuangang EL84s
1 12AU7 driven FX Loop.
30w/15w (Pentode) Modes, 15w/7w (Triode) Modes.
4 Gain Stages. Ultra High Gain.
No Reverb (my house is pretty acoustic anyway and gives a great natural reverb.
2 Channel
2-Band EQ for the clean channel, Shape control for the distortion channel.
The clean circuit on this amp is pretty much the same as that of a Vox AC30 and I sounds amazing. Very jangly (just like a Vox) and when this is cranked it breaks up amazingly and gives great classic rock tones.
BUT... this thing if super, super loud! I run the clean channel at 9 O'clock on the 7w mode or 7 1/2 O'clock on the 15w mode and it's amazingly loud (the 15w mode is slightly punchier and I rather it for distortion).

You wont be able to crank this up to reasonable break up at home without giving yourself and your neighbours tinnitus. That is, unless you have 6 foot thick brick walls and amazing noise isolating in ear monitors.

The distortion channel is the real star though. It's slightly quieter than the clean channel so you'll need to level it a bit. But anyway, not only does this have huge amount of gain but it sounds amazing. It is very aggressive and edgy but stays smooth when doing leads and it is very tight. My favourite thing about this channel is how responsive it is to picking dynamics though. With the gain at about 2 1/2 O'clock I can really nice singing blues tones until souring metal tones just with my pick and when turning down the guitars volume I can get great cleans. The sort of sound I like are Randy Rhoads/Doug Aldrich/Iron Maiden (Dave Murray)/Guns N Roses and Gary Moore and this amp can do it all amazingly.
This isn't a normal sounding british amp. It's slightly more modern sounding and dark (although Orange amps really aren't as dark as people sometimes say at all. I'm getting a really nice bright but warm sound from it).
I'd describe it as a mix of a Marshall JCM800 with a nice Soldano or maybe even Diezel. This just sounds amazing.
It is quite noisy when on really high volumes though but that doesn't bother me though because TBH I sit with my guitar plugged into the amp in order to play not to listen to noise. If it does bother you, you should just get a noise pedal.

The matching Orange PPC212 Closed Back is great. I got a display model so i got a great deal but it in really good condition.
Its 13mm baltic birch plywood, made in England and has Celestion V30s installed but I'm sure you all knew that. I've heard lots of people complain about the 412 being to boomy and I agree with that but the 212 is certainly one of my favourite 212s around. It certainly isn't too boomy and TBH it's much more house and recording studio friendly.
It is very heavy though.

Ok, one more thing before pics and then I'm done.
I'd like to dismiss the myth that Holy Divers are dark sounding in Les Pauls and wouldn't suit them. I'm running through a Les Paul and into a dark-ish amp and my tone is certainly not dark. It's actually quite bright.
As long as your guitar is installed with 500k+ pots then holy divers will work great!

Anyway, in my last thread you guys asked for a long, long review and I'm quite sure that I've lived up to your demands :D

Pics:

http://s1145.photobucket.com/albums/o511/TheDuckMajor/

[ericsabbath]

nice reviews (except for the gay buttsex part)
glad you like the pickups and the amp

also agree with that the 'holy darker' is a myth
it's a quite bright pickup in standard tuning and only gets dark if you go lower than drop C# or in a darker guitar, like an explorer or something

but comparing oranges to marshalls or diezels isn't fair
oranges always sound like oranges, and that's why they sell a lot (well... that and the colorful retro tolex)  :lol:
no other major brand will sound like that
they have a very different saturation grain from most amps in the market

[itamar101]

nice reviews (except for the gay buttsex part)
glad you like the pickups and the amp

also agree with that the 'holy darker' is a myth
it's a quite bright pickup in standard tuning and only gets dark if you go lower than drop C# or in a darker guitar, like an explorer or something

but comparing oranges to marshalls or diezels isn't fair
oranges always sound like oranges, and that's why they sell a lot (well... that and the colorful retro tolex)  :lol:
no other major brand will sound like that
they have a very different saturation grain from most amps in the market

Haha :D I'll try to keep out anything sexual next time I review something!
What I meant when I described the Orange as a mix between the Marshall and the diesel wasn't meant to mean that it sounds similar to either of them really. It does have a very unique tone.
I'll try to word it better, what I meant to say was that it is very much like a Hot Rodded British amp but with a slightly more modern American touch. It's still essentially a british sounding amp. I don't really calling amps dark/darker because that word is overused and really gives the wrong impression most of the time but the amp is slightly (not much) warmer than a marshall.

[itamar101]

Wow. I just re-read my review and there are WAY too many grammatical errors! I'll fix it soon.
Also, I wrote that the middle position "already has not established itself as my high gain rhythm pickup". I meant that it HAS already established itself as my rhythm pickup.

EDIT: Fixed.
I'm quite worried that this review was too long and noone wants to read it though :/

[AndyR]

I'm quite worried that this review was too long and noone wants to read it though :/

I think you managed to beat even me on the "long post" thing :lol:

I wouldn't worry about it, there are several of us on here that like reading or writing long posts. I used to worry with mine, but I realised it doesn't matter - people can read it or not, I had fun writing it. When it needs writing it needs writing  8).

The only thing that seems to go "wrong" is if I want responses/acknowledgement from others on specific things I said - tends not to happen if the post was too long. The folks that are interested in the subject will still read it, though. And, remember, there's a lot of people browsing these boards as guests, looking for some info/insight, anything they can get... what you post, when it's posted, is "out there" - someone's always gonna get something from it...

[itamar101]

I'm quite worried that this review was too long and noone wants to read it though :/

I think you managed to beat even me on the "long post" thing :lol:

I wouldn't worry about it, there are several of us on here that like reading or writing long posts. I used to worry with mine, but I realised it doesn't matter - people can read it or not, I had fun writing it. When it needs writing it needs writing  8).

The only thing that seems to go "wrong" is if I want responses/acknowledgement from others on specific things I said - tends not to happen if the post was too long. The folks that are interested in the subject will still read it, though. And, remember, there's a lot of people browsing these boards as guests, looking for some info/insight, anything they can get... what you post, when it's posted, is "out there" - someone's always gonna get something from it...

:D Well that's a positive way of looking at things!
Thanks!

[Slartibartfarst42]

I'm quite worried that this review was too long and noone wants to read it though :/

If a review is going to be worth anything at all, it needs detail as the more information you provide, the more useful it becomes. That's the way I see it anyway, but maybe that's just to justify my own own very long reviews  8)

Anyway, I'm really pleased you're loving your pickups as I remember I strongly supported these pickups as the best choices for you. I can't wait to get mine. I'm just finishing refreshing my rig with new amp and effects so as soon as the dust has settled on that and I find out how much money I have left, I'll get mine ordered. Useful information about the pots as well. Were your previous pots 500k or 300k? Mine are already 500k but so many people speak highly of of the BKP 550k pots that I may switch to those.

[itamar101]

I previously had 300k volume pots and 500k tone pots and I really wasn't a big fan of the sounds that I was getting. Dark, unarticulated and muddy. Changing my bridge pickups to the P94 was good at first but on e I started getting into heavier music and moving way from funk, classic rock and blues the the hum became unbearable whilst using high gain + even with 300k pots the P90 was too bright.

Anyway, I'm really happy with the desicions I made in regard to both the pickups and the amp and I honestly believe that this was the best gear that I could've chosen for my needs.
I really had know idea that pots made such a big difference in tone though!

I'd like to thank you guys and Tim for your help cause I honestly needed it

[itamar101]

Well, my brother came over today to try out my guitar/pickups and amp.
First thing he said when he came down to my basement and saw the amp was: "hey! It's orange! And big!". That was coincidentally what my band mates said when they came over for rehearsal as well! Everyone complimented my tone and they also said how much sexier my guitar looks as well as sounds after the Pickup swap. I'm really pleased with how the reverse zebra turned out. I didn't expect it to turn out so well but seems to have effected how I see my finish too. My finish seems less glossy and more natural now. But not like satin. Anyway, my guitar is unbelievably sexy now and it sounds amazing!

My brother also seems to be determined to get an HSS set of BKP for his Strat now! He's just saving up the money. I recommended him a VHII bridge and Irish Tour Neck and Middle but I said that the mothers milks would work well too. He seems set on the mothers milks anyway cos, like me, he's a huge frusciante fan.

I also told him that it he wants something thicker and more powerful the Holy Dover/Trilogy Suite set would work amazingly. I sure love my holy diver!

[darkbluemurder]

Glad you like your choice of BKPs!

That review got me gassing for an Emerald neck to replace the Cold Sweat neck in the PRS Custom - the Holydiver bridge is already there - let's see whether I still got a guitar where I could use the Cold Sweat neck as a bridge pickup.

Cheers Stephan

[Acolmiztli]

Nice gas! Those Orange amps are pretty damn good!

[itamar101]

Nice gas! Those Orange amps are pretty damn good!

They sure are! The Orange Thunder 30 is way under-estimated in my opinion. I would recommend it whenever possible but the problem is that I find that most people buying new amps in this price range on the forum thd I use to be on (ultimate guitar) are really in modern metal bands like A7X/Avenged Sevenfold and all of that stuff but I just can't get into that music  so I'd rather not recommend anything for it because I don't know much about their sounds. I'm absolutely certain that the orange can reach those levels of gain though.

This forum seems to acknowledge orange and give their amps a bit more respect (deservedly). Ive got to say that orange amps aren't for everyone because of their lack of controls and tones available. Orange have a very unique tone and it is the only tone that anyone will manage to get from their amps. Whether you play on high gain, medium gain or clean it'll always have the same characteristics.

If you want an orange you've got to go to try it out. If it gets the tone that you imagine in your head within the first minute go for it. If not, don't cos it's not gonna get there with the lack of controls.

That's how I bought it. I went to the shop and tried it out along with a few other amps which, although great, did not satisfy my tonal needs. As soon as I played one chord on the amp I knew that it was for me. It was the tone that I had dreamed of and was searching for, for 6 months. If you manage to get your dream tone after messing with the settings on the first try then it's just common sense to buy it! Anyway, I play quite a few styles of music but they all use a similar tone, all I really change is the amount of gain. I don't need versatility, all I need is tone. I'm by no means a purist but I really don't need that much versatility or control over an amp if it already gives me the sound that I want.

[Acolmiztli]

Yup. Same thing happened with me and a Rockerverb that I tried. I'm not too fond of the Terror series though. I guess they're okay, but not enough control over the sound for me!

[itamar101]

Yup. Same thing happened with me and a Rockerverb that I tried. I'm not too fond of the Terror series though. I guess they're okay, but not enough control over the sound for me!

I'm not a fan of the terror series either TBH. They don't have good enough cleans and they don't reach high enough gain either apart from the dark terror which has shite cleans and sounds way to compressed too.

But their Mid priced - High Priced amps (Rocker, Thunder, Rockerverb, Thunderverb, OR) are very hard to beat.

[gordiji]

The dual terror has good cleans but it's more powerfull than the TT. (more headroom).I find it very versitile and worth the xtra over the TT. I too looked at the Thunder and was very tempted, especially because it has a loop.
Glad your happy though :D