Got a bright guitar... need help

[Fixxxer_1988]

Hello,

I have a PRS CU22 that seems to be incredibly bright sounding... I currently have SD Alnico II Pros installed, they are ok but not really cutting it.

I am running it straight into a Vox Nightrain on the 'thick' channel so there is no EQ. When it is turned up I find it very bright and sometime a little unbearable... I have a feeling the pups are the culprit as this is the second amp it has sounded stupidly bright with! I don't play with loads of gain but love my power amp driven hard.

I was thinking Black Dogs as this may calm it down a bit in the high end and also fill out the bottom/mids. Would this be any good with any your experience?

If there is anything else you would recommend like pots, speaker blocks etc please share.

I did have another thread about which pickups and it seems like the Mules were a good choice but I'm worried they may be too bright also.

Thanks.

Rob

[Copperhead]

Nailbomb and Mississippi Queen have worked well for me in very bright guitars.

[Telerocker]

I presume it has something to do with the settings on your amp too (loads of mastervolume, little preamp can sound a bit brittle on some amps). But if it's the guitar you might consider 300k pots too or use a graphic eq to tame the highs. As for the pickups - if you really want to change them - Twinfan (a dedicated PRS-man) uses Black Dogs in one of his PRS's. I believe it's the Scott Henderson-model with a Mule in the middle (it has three hb's). Should work work fine. If it's very bright by itself, you could also have a look at the Crawler.

[Fixxxer_1988]

cheers guys.

Would the Mississippi Queens not be too bright? i was considering this for the neck position as I love the P90 sound!

I may look into the speaker, it is currently a G12m. It only seems to be over bright when the volume is up so it may be the speaker is just cr@p... I don't like these new chinese made Celestions.

At the moment I am looking at Black Dog in the Bridge, MQ, BD or Mule in neck and possibly a graphic EQ.

Hmm it is all so complicated and I cant make decisions :(

 

[Fixxxer_1988]

Oh yes and the 300k pots

[mongey]

of course I really like bkps. I'm on their forum and have 2 guitars with em but if you bypassing your amps eq I would look at that .

never played a nighttrain but every vox I have played or  heard is pretty bright by nature and with no EQ on the amp I cant imagine it makes it less cutting  . an eq pedal in front or in the effects loop(if it has one)  could help allot

[Mr. Air]

Pickupwise I would say Crawler or Black Dog, but the suggestions about an eq pedal and 300k pots might be worth checking out first.

[Twinfan]

There's nothing 'wrong' with the Chinese G12Ms, they're very nice speakers.

Bright guitars are much better than dull ones, so be glad you have a 'good' one  ;)

You are using the tone pot on your guitar, aren't you?  Backing it off to 6ish may be all you need to do...

[AndyR]

Bright guitars are much better than dull ones, so be glad you have a 'good' one  ;)

You are using the tone pot on your guitar, aren't you?  Backing it off to 6ish may be all you need to do...

Pretty much +1 to this from me.

I know it's all down to how one wants to use one's guitar (tone controls or not, etc), but this is exactly how I learnt how to do it when I was gigging.

I don't often say it in all the threads I join in where "too bright" is the issue, but my experience tells me that (for me personally) there's no real problem with too bright - just wind the thing back a bit on the guitar controls. The problem is when the thing ain't got the brights you need - you can fiddle with your amp and effects all you like, but invariably you won't get where you want to be. (And this applies for home use as well, not just gigging volumes, with drummers and wotnot, where it all became a lot more obvious and intuitive for me)

Oh, and by the way, even with the tone down to 6 or so, I always found some point during the gig where rolling it back up to 10 was still not bright enough! :lol:


Probably doesn't help you a whole lot at the moment.... It is something worth considering, though, when trying to figure out what pickups you want to get to where you want to be.

On the pickups themselves, I'm not that much help, I haven't tried Black Dogs, but that was my first thought from what I know of them - beef up the middle a bit. I was quite surprised to see a Mississippi Queen recommendation for this though - you'll definitely want to be using the volume and tones on those in a bright guitar! :lol: (And a very nice effect it would have too - I'm just not convinced it's what you're after right now!)

[gwEm]

I was going to say this earlier, but I think bright is a good thing. Obviously you can have too much, but as AndyR says "The problem is when the thing ain't got the brights you need"

300k pots may help you here if you do decide to darken things up.

[darkbluemurder]

That CU22 must be a really bright guitar if it is too bright with SD Alnico II Pros - I have had the neck pickup and thought that this was a very dull and muddy sounding pickup. Cannot comment about the bridge pickup as I never played one. I also have played a Vox Nighttrain and did not find it overly bright - not even in the "non-thick mode".

If you are looking for a BKP that fits a bright guitar better, Black Dogs would fit based on their descriptions. Another good option would be Abraxas or Crawlers - I can imagine the Crawlers to work very well in a really bright guitar. And get the 4-conductor version and specify whether you want them to work with the 5-way rotary selector - BKP will then get you the correct polarity versions.

I would stay with the 500k tone pot no matter what pickups you choose. In most guitars - also in PRS guitars - the tone pot is wired as a variable resistor with a capacitor to ground. Turn it down to 6 and you have got the equivalent of a 300k tone pot full up but you cannot turn a 300k tone pot up to make it more than 300k.

The volume pot is different as it is wired as a voltage divider. A 300k pot will load down the guitar more than a 500k when turned up full which sonically should translate to a less bright tone but may lose less highs compared to the 500k when turned down. The choice is pure personal preference.

Cheers Stephan

[Fixxxer_1988]

Thanks for all the advice and feedback.

I am using the tone control, I am an old school player and every sound I produce come from playing style and the guitar controls. The only thing is though, the neck is sensitive to all tone adjustments but the bridge does nothing to roll off the top until I reach at least 2-3 on the pot... I am waiting for the Black Dogs to arrive and I am going to do a 50s style wire up and hope that this works a bit better.

That CU22 must be a really bright guitar if it is too bright with SD Alnico II Pros - I have had the neck pickup and thought that this was a very dull and muddy sounding pickup. Cannot comment about the bridge pickup as I never played one. I also have played a Vox Nighttrain and did not find it overly bright - not even in the "non-thick mode".

If you are looking for a BKP that fits a bright guitar better, Black Dogs would fit based on their descriptions. Another good option would be Abraxas or Crawlers - I can imagine the Crawlers to work very well in a really bright guitar. And get the 4-conductor version and specify whether you want them to work with the 5-way rotary selector - BKP will then get you the correct polarity versions.

I would stay with the 500k tone pot no matter what pickups you choose. In most guitars - also in PRS guitars - the tone pot is wired as a variable resistor with a capacitor to ground. Turn it down to 6 and you have got the equivalent of a 300k tone pot full up but you cannot turn a 300k tone pot up to make it more than 300k.

The volume pot is different as it is wired as a voltage divider. A 300k pot will load down the guitar more than a 500k when turned up full which sonically should translate to a less bright tone but may lose less highs compared to the 500k when turned down. The choice is pure personal preference.

Cheers Stephan

Cheers for the really detailed knowledgeable reply! would it be possible to wire a 500k tone with 300k volume? or do they have to be the same?

I currently making up a beam blocker to separate those highs and also found moving the amp away from the wall really cools off the spikyness.

[ericsabbath]

black dog set should darken it nicely

[darkbluemurder]

Cheers for the really detailed knowledgeable reply! would it be possible to wire a 500k tone with 300k volume? or do they have to be the same?

There is no technical reason that they have to be the same. Most manufacturers use the same pot values because then they have to stock only one kind and save money by buying bigger quantities. 300k volume and 500k tone work as fine together as 300k and 300k or 500k and 500k. Ultimately it is only important whether you like the tone coming out of your guitar. I have one Telecaster with a 250k volume and a 500k tone pot.

Cheers Stephan