Didn't like HD in Strat, now what?

[Roboten]

I've had a HSS strat with a HD + 2 slow hands for a month or two now, and while i really like the SHs the HD just isnt doing it for me. My guitar is an american standard strat with maple/maple neck, and to my ears the sound of the HD in this guitar is too low middy, loose and lacking treble. Now i'm thinking about selling it and getting a new pup, but my experience of humbuckers in fender guitars is limited.

I want something with more treble, a bit more high mids, tighter bottom and more punch. The HD feels too modern, i feel disconnected from the strings. I've felt the same way with a lot of high output pups, but i thought bpks would be an exception to the high output/no punch-rule. I have a pair of mules in my Les Paul Traditional Pro and they have the feeling i'm looking for, punchy and dynamic with the perfect amout of treble, bass and mids.

Ideally the pickup i'm looking for would be a pickup that sounds like a slightly more powerful mule in a les paul, but in a strat. Is this possible? I know the construction and wood differs, but something along those lines would be great.

Punch, clarity, feel and dynamics are of the uttermost importance, any suggestions what to get? VHII and maybe c-bomb is what i'm thinking...

[itamar101]

This is very confusing.
You want something lower ouput but tighter? Not gonna happen. And the C-Bomb is gonna give you any more of the "feel" that you describe than a HD.
Also, you must need a shiteload of aggression, top end and tightness if a HD give give that to you in a maple guitar withs maple neck.
I don't really know what to reccomend... I've never really heard of a pickup that does what you want but the VHII might be close.
Ah, come to think about it, you might want to take a look at the cold sweat bridge or maybe the Blackhawks. I'm not sure that they'll be excactly what you want but they might come close.

[Roboten]

To be honest i dont know what i want myself really, but regarding the tightness its more of a tight feeling than a tight sound i'm after. I've always found that low output pups "feel" tighter but sound looser imo. Of course a strat is going to sound looser than a les paul, it's inherit in its design, but i hope there's some pups that can counter act this somewhat.

But to sound less retarded, more treble and high mids, tighter feeling and less low mids. And lower output....yeah....

[Mr. Air]

Maybe an Abraxas will do the trick. It's often described as a Mule/PAF on steroids so if you're looking for something more powerfull than a Mule, but with the same tonal characteristics I think Abraxas might be the choice.

[Slartibartfarst42]

If the Holydiver is too modern, the last thing you want is an A-Bomb, nevermind a C-Bomb!! I used an A-Bomb before I changed it for a Holydiver and it was waaaaayyyy more modern and aggressive than the Holydiver.

A higher powered Mule certainly screams out Abraxas to me so I'd try that.

[Roboten]

It's not really the sound thats too modern, its the feeling when youre playing thats too modern, feels somewhat detatched and saggy which is made worse by the overall feel of a strat. An abraxas would be what i would want for a les paul, but i want to recreate its sound to some extent on a strat.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I'm not sure what to suggest. I play a Holydiver and the last way I'd describe it is 'saggy' or 'loose', in a Strat, Les Paul or anything else. Furthermore, a hotter Mule IS an Abraxas.

Maybe a Crawler? It's a hot pickup with a vintage feel to it and though generally thought of as a darker pickup, perhaps the natural brightness of the Strat will compensate for that to give you something more like an Abraxas in a Les Paul. Maybe it's more the Strat you don't like?

[Roboten]

I'm just describing what my ears seem to hear. I did an A/B test with my les paul, and the lack of top end is obvious. i thought a humbucker on a maple fretboard strat would have more top end than my les paul, but no, it's almost as if the tone knob is rolled down halfways even though the tone knob is wired only to the volume pot, by bkp themselves no less, which is why i dont think theres anything wrong with the wiring.

I dont think it's the strat either, the other pickups are fine. Its not the brightest strat in existence, but not to dark either, it just right in the middle of the tonal spectrum. I just find it strange that it's so mid middy, and that my other guitars that are supposed to be more mid oriented doesnt have as much mids.

Does anyone know if theres anything i can check, you never know if the wiring was damaged during shipment.

[TheyCallMeVolume]

Probably Crawler, imo

[Telerocker]

I have both Crawler and a VHII in HSS-strats. You might want a VHII, which performs well, even in an bolt on ash guitar. It has the punch, clarity and dynamics in a strat. The solotones are wicked when you dig in. Very touchsensitive pickup. For a bit more output, good mids, airy topend and still PAF-flavour you could have a look at the Abraxas.

[DoomBuggi]

I'm going to go out on a limb and suggest a Rebel Yell. I have been up for way too long, so forgive me if I seem to have missed something.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I can't get my head around the fact that your Les Paul has more top end than a Strat with an all maple neck. That just shouldn't be the case. I assume you got the HD because you wanted something that was thick, smooth and fluid so we must be looking for something that has similar characteristics. To me, that suggests primarily a Crawler, which is fat, smooth and fluid with a really sweet lead tone like the Holydiver but with a more Vintage feel to it, which seems to be what you want. However, it's a darker pickup than the Holydiver and not as tight as the Holydiver so that doesn't bode well if you want something brighter.

What I've said above would suggest you want a brighter pickup rather than a darker one but this is where I get confused. I'm not entirely clear why the Abraxas wouldn't suit you. In terms of EQ, it's got the mids backed off a bit so should come through as a brighter pickup, with the Alnico IV magnet retaining the smooth and fluid aspects of the Holydiver and giving it a more vintage feel BUT you say the Abraxas is what you'd want in a Les Paul; a guitar that is generally seen as darker. This would suggest you want something darker than an Abraxas, which brings me back to the Crawler  :?

I can see the wisdom of a VHII given some of the things you've said but it's a brighter pickup than an Abraxas, which is a pickup you've already said you'd want to put in a darker guitar so I assume the same would be true of a VHII. I really don't know what to suggest until I can understand this apparent contradiction and that's before I get to the issue of wanting something that's more vintage in feel than the HD but also tighter, which is something more commonly associated with a modern pickup.

[Roboten]

My logic goes like this: i really like the sound of my mules in my les paul and i want that sound with lightly higher output in my strat, but since the strat should be a brighter guitar than the paul, maybe the pickups that would give me that sound on a paul would sound to thin on a strat? Since alder is a thinner sounding wood?

I think what i may be describing is a lack of presence, since the HD is brigher, or middier, overall than my mules but with less presence. Certain high frequency tones thats not present which gives the tone less of a punch. Feels like the tone is all body and no...hair? Thats why i'm thinking VHII, since it has more treble and less low end.

[gwEm]

A good Les Paul can be bright for sure.

VH2s have that PAFy character and would be an option. I wonder if they'll keep up with the slow hands ok, but I think you'd like the tone.

[Telerocker]

My logic goes like this: i really like the sound of my mules in my les paul and i want that sound with lightly higher output in my strat, but since the strat should be a brighter guitar than the paul, maybe the pickups that would give me that sound on a paul would sound to thin on a strat? Since alder is a thinner sounding wood?

I think what i may be describing is a lack of presence, since the HD is brigher, or middier, overall than my mules but with less presence. Certain high frequency tones thats not present which gives the tone less of a punch. Feels like the tone is all body and no...hair? Thats why i'm thinking VHII, since it has more treble and less low end.

I was just thinking once more: how you've wired the strat and what pots are in there, and did you fiddle with the height?, cause I had to tweak to get the Crawler in to balance too.

And I believe our global moderator Nolly has an Abraxas, Pat Pend, Slowhand-combo in his vintage strat, so Abraxas should work when it works for Nolly, it just a dfferent flavour then the VHII. I have a covered VHII in my American Series-strat and you will love that one. It's balanced and pretty tight for a vintagehot-pickup. The question is how important is the balance with the hot Slowhands?