Username: Password:

Author Topic: Not another wah wah thread..  (Read 9577 times)

tekbow

  • Lightweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
Not another wah wah thread..
« on: July 05, 2012, 10:18:41 PM »
yes, but hopefully not the normal "Which wah should i buy" type thread

just some general thoughts on wahs and what have you actually owned, tried and what did you like, not like?

Am just coming out the other side of a little wah obsession, much like my fuzz and OD buying period a few years back, but this time tempered with a little healthy cynicism.

Couple years back i'd just been playing guitar again for 2 or so years after a lengthy break. Had never been a pedal person and suddenly i became one, as a means of sound enhancemnt. I bought many great fuzzes and OD's, but for the wrong reasons. I bought them because, such and such used them or it was designed to give such and such a mojo sound, and i bought into the transparency thing too, so picked a couple of supposed transparent OD's up.

Looking back, if i knew then what i know now i probably would have a few less pedals. So, in looking for something different in a wah, i applied what i had learned.

Why was i unhappy with my wah? i wasn't, i had a fulltone clyde standard which had been recommended to me as one of the best production wahs around. cool, and it was white too. so it became a christmas present.

One of my other forums are vintage effects junkies and they talked about how there was basically so little choice these days. as my knowledge grew i found out what they meant, and by and large i agree. So whats the issue with a lot of wah's??

Basically, choice of wahs are so limited. you can quote 50 different manufacturers to me, mass produced and otherwise and it all comes back to the same thing. most of the wah's out there are vox/crybaby based. and those 2 wah's are basically the same anyway. so we have a multitude of wahs that sound alike (differing in terms of quality, and very few of them sounding as good as the originals IMO) and of that multitude, the ones that don't (am looking at you dunlop signature wahs) are basically wahs for which a premium is charged for a few component value changes and a fancy enclosure. the components cost pennies and the enclosures do not affect the sound quality, so when i see a xxx signature wah priced nearly £100 more than the bog standard wah, i can't help thinking a bit of a rip off. not everyones competent with a soldering iron, i'm not, but most of us know someone who is, or will charge not too much to do a few mods. hell, some places sell them premodded for not much more than the original price.

that's what i don't like. that and people have forgotton that wahs, like fuzzes, come in many more flavours and voicings than the Q pot on a vox/crybaby type will provide.

i posed the question a while back to my other forumites on my other forum "what will whacka me more?" i got a multitude of replies, foremost of which were colorsound and Maestro boomerangs. they were right, very whacka-y. The colorsounds have a deeper voicing than the V/CB's with a more "whumpka chuck" sound and a narrower transition spot. also has a great synthy sounding sweetspot that can be ridden and sounds like something from a daft punk album. the boomerang, well that's just special.. yes the pots are shite and were of such an unusual type that they can't easily be replaced, and a lot of trouble has to be gone to to replicate how the original pot sounded but, even with the normal (and wrong) method of replacing them they still sound awesome. They add a real grit and grain to the sound, the mids sizzle, and if you can get one with an unf**ked pot, or get the mods done to bring them to 98% of original, they have the most insane extended sweet spot that the first time i heard an example of it, i thought it was a dude playing slide.

I now have 2 colorsounds, one wah, and one fuzz wah, which as a bonus has the old jumbo tonebender circuit built in as opposed to the diet fuzzface/tonebender circuit they also used. and i got it for cheaper than most of either of the 2 originals go for on their own.

I also have a boomerang, which is getting modded up to spec and will sound more awesome than it already did.

what else is there out there? tychobrae parapedal, Iommi used that, it combines a subtle almost envelope filter with a regular wah (i say regular, call it conventional) on a dual pot. sounds evil.

mutronics c200 (i think thats the right model number), which was carlos's wah in the 70's

schaller bow wow, look it up on youtube. sounds great.

Many others..

and none of them sound like a V/CB. I think we've only had Vox/Crybaby for so long that we forget that, while they're wahs, not all wah's are them. just like nobody would try to say an OD1, tubescreamer, MXR etc etc all sound the same. but they're all overdrives/distortions right?

i know i mentioned a couple of "artists who used" but don't worry, i'm not forgetting my cynicism, i mention them because they're the best known examples of people who used them, and you can get an idea of how they sound, not because those people created a signature sound with them.

So back around to the beginning. If the majority of wahs are the same, why didn't I just buy a bog standard crybaby?? why buy some corksniffing piece of yank gear? well.. because i didn't know then what i know now, but in retrospect, i am happy that i've got one of the better sounding vintage voiced wahs out there, with components specced on the best sounding examples of the originals, and where suitable modern replacements could not be found, then high tolerence repros were produced (inductor and icar taper pot in mosts cases) that are harder wearing than the originals. The fulltone also had a few bonuses over a bog standard dunlop that i didn't appreciate till later. the enclosure is a fancy one yes, but it's a fancy one designed to have a longer throw for more range, and it's also about the sturdiest i've come across. it also has a handy little pot inside which increases the gain and base. not quite a q control, but i like it a lot. and all i have to do is take the bottom off. Also YMMV. the fulltone happened to be the one that was recommended and bought. I don't think it's significantly better or worse than the CAE wah, or the arteffect wah, or the Jam Wacka, or any of the other higher end "mojo" V/CB based wahs. but what it does like most of the others, is one thing well, and has some necessary proprietry components, and is made in smaller runs with more care and tighter tolerences. what it is not, is £100 more expensive than a base model for the sake of a few component values and a flash enclosure.

some people like knobs. I don't, not on wahs. yes the pot inside is a knob, but it's a very simple one and it's easy enough to get back where i started. 99.9% of the time, too many knobs means (to me) i'll fiddle with it and never be happy with a sound. I'd rather just have one that was well voiced in the first place.

Thank you for allowing me to get the preceding off my chest. Please seek out and try wahs that aren't of V/CB origin. you may be suprised.


tekbow

  • Lightweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #1 on: July 05, 2012, 10:19:44 PM »
I just realised how long that post was.. nobody's going to read all that  :lol:

38thBeatle

  • Middleweight
  • *****
  • Posts: 6098
    • http://www.myspace.com/alteregoukband
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #2 on: July 05, 2012, 11:13:15 PM »
I did and now I am going to have a lie down.
Send three and fourpence we're going to a dance
BKP's: Apache, Country Boy, Slowhands.

tekbow

  • Lightweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #3 on: July 05, 2012, 11:19:01 PM »
probably just as well to  :lol:

Kiichi

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 2492
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #4 on: July 05, 2012, 11:21:21 PM »
Oh sh*t....fudge it, I don´t care right now, but I´ll read it tomorrow morning as it looks interresting enough.
BKPs in use: 10th set / RY set / Holy Diver b, Emerald n / Crawler bridge, Slowhand mid MQ neck/ Manhattan n
On the sidelines: Stockholm b / Suppermassive n, Mule n, AM set, IT mid

JJretroTONEGOD

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 1358
  • JJ Retro w/Mule + BKP90
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #5 on: July 06, 2012, 04:28:03 AM »
after reading all that, have you not heard of clive mc-coy in america? he is the wah guru
listen to my music for free here:
https://soundcloud.com/bentyreman

Philly Q

  • Light Heavyweight
  • ******
  • Posts: 18109
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #6 on: July 06, 2012, 08:47:46 AM »
after reading all that, have you not heard of clive mc-coy in america? he is the wah guru

That's Clyde McCoy, and he's been dead for many years.  I don't think he had anything to do with making wah pedals, he was a musician but Vox used his name on their pedals as he inspired the sound they created.

Which is about the only useful thing I can say here, I'm afraid.

(If there is a wah guru called Clive McCoy, I apologise!)
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

tekbow

  • Lightweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #7 on: July 06, 2012, 10:44:45 AM »
after reading all that, have you not heard of clive mc-coy in america? he is the wah guru

Ok, but a little unsure as to what am i taking away from this? there's lots of wah guru's in the states, Geoffrey Teese, Wilson effects, Area 51, Chase tone, to name but a few, in the uk we have our very own Stuart Castledine (Top bloke) who's area of expertise are the italian made vox's. Some of these guys, to their credit, do repros of other wah's, Teese does the Wheels of fire Wah (colorsound), Wilson does the Freaker Wah (Parapedal), and Stuart builds the Macaris vintage reissues series Colorsounds.

Their bread and butter is still Vox/Crybaby. that doesn't detract from any of them at all. The area 51 and wilsons are modern progressions, the castledine and teese are uber accurate vintage. The point is they're still V/CB and there's other wah types out there. I'm not damning V/CB because i own one of the family, and i WANT one of Stuarts Vox grey wah repros. Am also quite interested in the arteffect wah's because they're the guys who's repro pots are rated as the best by some of the other gurus. I used to want a fully loaded area 51, but just knew the knobs would drive me insane.

Philly, I've never heard of a Clive McCoy either, although i guess there could be one, but yep, you're bang on the money. The term crybaby was coined because of the muted trumpet that was Clydes sig sound, in conjunction with the title of a song of his i believe. Thomas organ felt the sound of the wah was similar and used his name (and on the early wahs, his picture on the bottom of the pedal, hence the teese picture wah) to market the product. there's also the Fulltone Clyde McCoy model which is what i use.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=63EGEa8xqcM

I'll stop there before i write another half page on how the vox's and crybabys diverged ec etc. By the way, all of this stuff is not my research, much more knowledgeable, dedicated and detectivey people than me found all this out and made it available for everyone. the people who did are largely all wah gurus these days.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2012, 07:00:05 PM by tekbow »

frankus

  • Junior Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #8 on: July 06, 2012, 11:02:45 AM »
The wah was my first effects pedal back in the late 80s. I was a massive Hendrix fan back then and a mate lent me a Jen Supercrybaby - I've bought a Bad Horsie and a GCB but I've had about 8 Jens all told. I love them :) and it's not rational.

Stuart Castledine identifies the things most people tweak: http://www.wah-wah.co.uk/diy.html

There used to be a section on the profiles of the different inductors, I got my hands on a "trash can" inductor Jen with Ducati caps :) and it is wierd because when I tried it the first word that came to my mind was creamy... I love treble and I like nasal wahs but the old trick of adjusting the sweep didn't cut it :S it's still a great sound, almost an effect in itself.

I've looked at the nice new stuff and I bet it sounds quieter, buffered and such but I can't let go of that 25 year love affair with the Jen :)

tekbow

  • Lightweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #9 on: July 06, 2012, 11:08:05 AM »
Oh for an old Jen wah.... thats holy grail stuff there...

No knocking V/CB, just that we really have so little choice in wah's these days. vox and crybaby types have by far the biggest market share. I'd like to see more like there used to be in the 70's

You know.. my previous paragraph probably would have been a much shorter way of saying what i originally said in the first post..  :?

 :lol:
« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 12:32:42 PM by tekbow »

frankus

  • Junior Flyweight
  • *
  • Posts: 30
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #10 on: July 06, 2012, 01:16:07 PM »
lengthy posts are awesome, because we're allowed to go on the journey with you :)

I get your point though, there aren't many Hall Effects wahs or different profiles, it's like the variety is okay while it's a novelty but sounds become stereotyped and deviation is seen as incorrectness... or originality.




blue

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 2212
    • http://www.bebo.com/blue1million
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2012, 01:27:46 PM »
that was a nice article :)  i'm perfectly happy with long posts when they're clearly and coherently written, and i enjoyed that one.  i agree, it's a pity that there is seen to be basically a single wah sound these days.  it would be nice to see more variety.  your mention of the parapedal and colorsound repros intrigues me, can i send you the bill if i end up buying them?  ;)
cry HAVOC!! and let slip the pigs of war!!!

tekbow

  • Lightweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2012, 01:46:53 PM »
LMAO well.. would say this.. as far as colorsound goes, the vintage repros are pricey, well worth the money as they are built with extreme attention to detail by Stu Castledine. Macaris say they're not reissues, they are colorsound wahs, and i would agree, but originals can be had on the bay for not too much.. I was watching this one actually..

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230820228069?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649

anybody wants it, jump at it because my girlfriend will go tits if another wah turns up

thats a decent price for a fuzz wah swell. word of warning, a friend who owns one says because the pot is used for both wah and swell, it's hard to balance the 2. when the swell sounds good, the wah does not and vice versa. other thing i've noticed about that one is there's no battery door on the bottom. they usually have one as the bottoms of the pedal are press fit, they fit so snug that a lot of people leave the retaining screws out of the sides. am not sure how you get the bottom off that one because if i want to get at the inside (tweaking the pot) i use the battery door gap to lever the bottom off.

here's a youtube demo of a colorsound vs old thomas organ crybaby.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xoZTPy0LP40

the chicago iron reissue of the parapedal (they make them using the same tooling, mnachines, enclosures etc) you can hear the mild synth/envelope filter thing going on subtly underneath. it also seems to die at heel down on the sweep, thats a feature of these, some like it, some don't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxwcoZWvlm0

My favourite examples of a boomerang. JJ cale, is using a slide here, but not as much as you'd think

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcY5SQECqks

and of course

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OctVizcgBcY

« Last Edit: July 06, 2012, 02:06:47 PM by tekbow »

blue

  • Welterweight
  • ****
  • Posts: 2212
    • http://www.bebo.com/blue1million
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #13 on: July 06, 2012, 02:15:58 PM »
on that Colorsound, how does that work?  do the wah and swell effects operate at the same time?  i see there are two footswitches, but i imagine one is for wah and the other for fuzz
cry HAVOC!! and let slip the pigs of war!!!

tekbow

  • Lightweight
  • ***
  • Posts: 613
Re: Not another wah wah thread..
« Reply #14 on: July 06, 2012, 02:31:35 PM »
here's another vid that shows the function better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moB0zUO2Yo0&feature=related

looks like on this particular model (the controls varied from year to year) that the volume function is the default state with unity (maybe even a slight boost) being toe down. wah's activated on the back switch, which cuts out the volume function completely, and the fuzz is actiivated on the front switch. You can have the wah+fuzz, wah, fuzz, swell, or fuzz + swell. There's a later model which seems to be quite collectable and has separate wah, fuzz and swell switches so all three can be on at once or none. also has external knobs for the fuzz controls.

am trying to find info at the moment on how colorsounds progressed, because there's numerous different enclosures, controls schemes, colours, labels etc etc. Stu Castledine said to me (paraphrased) no ryhme or reason. i'm pretty sure the labels can be used as a rough guide to their age at least. whats inside them can be pot luck though lol my wah fuzz should have been of a type that usually had the diet fuzzface circuit in it, when i opened up it turned out to be the jumbo tonebender (think lizzy, mark bolan etc)