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Author Topic: Pup's for semi hollow eastman  (Read 4906 times)

Roboten

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Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« on: July 12, 2012, 10:37:10 AM »
Having just installed a riff raff set in my les paul standard double cut i think its time to bkp-ify my last guitar, an Eastman 186sm semi with maple top and mahogany sides/back and ebony fretboard. It's equipped with kent armstrong pafs atm, which are pretty decent but really nothing special, especially when playing clean.

I want the guitar to have the best possible clean tone, a full clear tone. I want touch sensitivity, i hate when it feels like i have to pick harder than i'd like to just to get the volume i want. The three obvious pickups would be MQs, Manhattans and Stormy mondays. Even though most of my guitars are humbucker equipped, i've always felt like they leave a little to be desired when it comes to the clean tones, but i have never played really low output humbuckers like SM so i dont know if that's the case here. Though I once had a SD alnico pro II in the neck of a guitar, and bkp version of that tone be awesome.

On the other hand, i've never owned a p90 guitar. I've spent some time with a les paul special and while it sounded pretty great, i have no idea of what to expect of p90s in a semi hollow. From the clips on the site i think manhattans sounds the best, but it seems like consensus is that it's a very niche pickup.

So what's the best pickup combo for a semi hollow if a want a full, clean tone with great touch sensitivity? Pros and cons and comparisons of SM, Manhattans and MQs are much appreciated!
Stormy Mondays, Mules, Riff Raffs, '63 Veneer Board Set, BG52s, Emeralds, C-Pig(b), Trilogy(n)

djl

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Re: Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« Reply #1 on: July 12, 2012, 10:45:30 AM »
All of the above will do touch sensitivity and fantastic cleans. Certainly the SMs are the most articulate humbuckers I've ever played. I would go unpotted for the very slight extra dynamic response if you want cleans, but bear in mind the possibility of microphonic feedback if you play really high gain stuff with them (although I've never had this problem with mine).

The P90s will also do great cleans, but it is a slightly different flavour of clean if you see what I mean - more like a fatter single coil sound. Maybe if you list some artists or sounds that you are after that would help.


Fourth Feline

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Re: Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« Reply #2 on: July 12, 2012, 11:01:41 AM »
For straight ahead Jazz / Chord Melody / ambient noodlings,  the Manhattans get my first vote, as they have the clarity of the Stormy Mondays, but an added richness and depth that does not sacrifice note seperation or clarity. The Alnico III magnets really do add a little magic.  

The Stormy Mondays  are the great clear / open / sweet 'allrounder' but would sound a touch brighter and potentially dryer than the Manhattans n a hollow body.   Both Pickups are great, but to my ears , the Manhattans are truly unique.   The Mississipi Queens - are quite fat /clear / glassy and focused on the edge of each note, whereas the Manhattans and Stormy Mondays, give you more spaces around the notes.  Hard to Describe, but I loved M.Qs in a 335 Copy, for warm, clear , but commanding Blues tones ;  But for chord melody,  they did not give me the same openness and subtlety.  

As djl said, let us know what specific style and sounds you want, and we can all weigh in with more information.

If I had to say only one, for that beautiful guitar - and your opening brief,  it would however be the Manhattan. If in doubt, you can always try the neck pickup first. :)
BKP Manhattans, Stormy Mondays,  Mules , Missisippi Queens , ( Alnico) Warpigs - and VHII Bridge.

Roboten

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Re: Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2012, 08:18:59 PM »
I have a very specific sound in my head that i'm having a hard time describing, but it's essentially a jazz tone, the kind you get from a hollowbody jazzbox but with a slightly brighter tone. I'm guessing that if manhattans would be the kind of pickup you would pick for that kind of guitar i would probably get that slightly brighter tone that i'm after since my guitar has a block of solid wood under it's bridge, and i shallower body. However, after listening to the MQ clips i have to say that the MQ bridge sound truly great, how do you think a neck manhattan would sit next to a MQ bridge? Would it throw the eq settings off every time i change pickups?
Stormy Mondays, Mules, Riff Raffs, '63 Veneer Board Set, BG52s, Emeralds, C-Pig(b), Trilogy(n)

Fourth Feline

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Re: Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2012, 09:46:09 PM »
Hiya ,  :)

I ( think I ) hear what you are saying about he tone - and it certainly helps me to comment further.

Short answer :  Stormy Mondays.

Long answer:

So I could give more helpful input to this and similar posts, I dropped my Stormy Mondays out of my Ibanez  AF75 this afternoon - and fitted /set up/ played the Mississipi Queens again.  At the end of the 'experiment' I had reminded myself what the attributes of the Mississippi Queens were - and ( for my purposes ) - re-installed my Stormy Mondays.  :)

Compared to the Manhattans and Stormy Mondays - the M.Qs were assertive, edgy and clear - but in Hollow guitar /chord melody 'mode' at low volumes they were just 'blocky' sounding;  with much of the power of the Warpig neck,  but without it's velvety rounded nose on the note delivery. I then dug into the plain strings - switched the practice amp amp model to a 'British classic '  and they absolutey sang when I applied long bends and slow vibrato on the end .  Bear in mind, this was with flatwound 12's on ,  so I was easily getting a singing tone out of the M.Qs on a 'hollow box'  without light strings or any real pre-amp gain , or amp volume to assist.  I had used the M'Qs for just such effect in a 335 copy some time ago - and remember thinking how these would probably be great Solid body with Soul pickups or indeed absolutely great for ( my requirement of ) Larry Carlton tones, but with a much tighter bass than the Stormy Mondays.

The Manhattans are very 'open' sounding, but with a plummy richness and depth that would ( if anything) resonate deeper  in contact with a wood block.  When you said " Jazz sound with , but with aslightly brighter tone " - it evoked memories of how the Stormy Mondays brought out the bright 'snap' of the maple top on my Les Paul. Think of the Mules, remove some of the mids - and make the bass strings a bit more 'soft focus - and generally speaking you have the Stormy Monday in a solid body.  

Moving on ;  take this ability of the Stormy Mondays to pretty much 'read' the woods and acoustic foundation of your guitar - and listen to some of djl's excellent sound clips in the 'Player's section - and you have a good idea.

I ( however ) stuck with the potted Stormy Mondays, for although I can definately hear a touch more 'air' in djl's unpotted ones, I feel that the slightly more compact sounding potted ones, carry a touch more sweetness. When you are in Stormy Monday territory, it's all subtle - and indeed somewhat subjective , but that is the logic of my thinking on this one.

You could try ( as I did )  the Alnico IV version of the Stormy Mondays ( available by request ) - and the bass / mids will aquire a tighter and somewhat pure and almost crystalline 'zing' when sliding round on them, but for me they gained a 'toothy' edge to the trebles - which seemed to rob them of their signature sweetness somehow. I enjoyed the experience - and indeed ( now long deleted ) comparitive soundclips I left on here - drew votes for both types of sound ( i.e AII Stormys and AIV Stormys).

To me Stormy Mondays ARE  the Alnico II sound - with what I feel is a uniquely B.K.P. sweetness in the treble.

 :)

* Late edit*
Yes, I think the E.Q difference between M.Q bridge and Manhattan neck would be really quite stark.  Stormy Monday bridge / Manhattan neck would be diverse within the same guitar - but one assumes similar volume levels. Here the AIV Stormy Bridge could really play to it's strengths.  As the Manhattan pair are lovely, I never really had to consider the question myself, but look out for a couple of soundclips that a guy called 'Gerry' left in the Player's section - where they ( as a pair ) were fitted in a Hamer Newport. I know other people have tried the Manhattans in a solid body guitar on here , but ( unfortunately ) I cannot remember exactly who.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2012, 10:26:43 PM by Fourth Feline »
BKP Manhattans, Stormy Mondays,  Mules , Missisippi Queens , ( Alnico) Warpigs - and VHII Bridge.

Roboten

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Re: Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« Reply #5 on: July 15, 2012, 08:51:03 PM »
I have now listen very carefully to both your and dlj's clips, and both the manhattans and the stormy mondays sound absolutely supreme. Which of course makes it a bitch to decide what to get since i only have one guitar left to throw in the bare knuckler-o-tron. Which means a might have to get another one in the future! But first things first, right now I think I'll play it safe with Stormy Mondays, the summertime clip has exactly the tone I'm going for, thanks! When I get them I'll post a review of all the pickups I've purchased.
Stormy Mondays, Mules, Riff Raffs, '63 Veneer Board Set, BG52s, Emeralds, C-Pig(b), Trilogy(n)

Fourth Feline

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Re: Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« Reply #6 on: July 15, 2012, 11:37:50 PM »
I have now listen very carefully to both your and dlj's clips, and both the manhattans and the stormy mondays sound absolutely supreme. Which of course makes it a bitch to decide what to get since i only have one guitar left to throw in the bare knuckler-o-tron. Which means a might have to get another one in the future! But first things first, right now I think I'll play it safe with Stormy Mondays, the summertime clip has exactly the tone I'm going for, thanks! When I get them I'll post a review of all the pickups I've purchased.

Yes, I thought the 'Summertime' clip was just the ticket for what you described.  :)

Meanwhile, I have taken the liberty of re-mixing the Manhattan clips you kindly listened to - and reposted them back at the top of the 'Players' section to emphasise the ( hopefully ) much improved mix.

The Manhattans are something very special, but the ( also excellent ) Storrmy Mondays, not only fit your brief, but also may better lend themselves to more general use in other guitars and styles.

I look forward to your review ; for as you may gather - those of us that own then, certainly enjoy them.  :)
BKP Manhattans, Stormy Mondays,  Mules , Missisippi Queens , ( Alnico) Warpigs - and VHII Bridge.

Telerocker

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Re: Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2012, 12:45:36 AM »
I would not rule out a set of Mules too. They have superb cleans, are articulate, dynamic, deep and full, but have still lovely crispiness to them.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

Fourth Feline

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Re: Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2012, 12:05:54 PM »
I would not rule out a set of Mules too. They have superb cleans, are articulate, dynamic, deep and full, but have still lovely crispiness to them.

Thanks for the information and timely reminder Telerocker,  :)

 I just remembered reading that someone once asked for an Alnico III magnet putting in the Mule neck ( whilst buying the pair). I never heard of the outcome, but the idea of a 'Mule' winding and a ( AIII ) magnet better know for it's qualities in the Half Note and Manhattan pickups - would be a very nice idea.

I also read your comments with interest ( even as a Mule owner) - as I have not yet had chance to take them up to higher volumes / really test them out fully.  However, even at low volumes, played clean through a small solid state practice amp - the Mules sounded so great in the Les Paul, I just knew they were staying there for life.  :)
« Last Edit: July 17, 2012, 12:08:19 PM by Fourth Feline »
BKP Manhattans, Stormy Mondays,  Mules , Missisippi Queens , ( Alnico) Warpigs - and VHII Bridge.

Telerocker

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Re: Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2012, 11:28:05 PM »
I would not rule out a set of Mules too. They have superb cleans, are articulate, dynamic, deep and full, but have still lovely crispiness to them.

Thanks for the information and timely reminder Telerocker,  :)

 I just remembered reading that someone once asked for an Alnico III magnet putting in the Mule neck ( whilst buying the pair). I never heard of the outcome, but the idea of a 'Mule' winding and a ( AIII ) magnet better know for it's qualities in the Half Note and Manhattan pickups - would be a very nice idea.

I also read your comments with interest ( even as a Mule owner) - as I have not yet had chance to take them up to higher volumes / really test them out fully.  However, even at low volumes, played clean through a small solid state practice amp - the Mules sounded so great in the Les Paul, I just knew they were staying there for life.  :)

Amen!
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

timski

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Re: Pup's for semi hollow eastman
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2012, 11:51:12 PM »
Unpotted Stormy Mondays.
But if you want that crisper, brighter Grant Green type tone then you'll need P90s.