Need a new axe! Got my eye on a Gibson LP 2012 Standard, Opinions?

[itamar101]

If you want an opinion on a LP Standard, I'd would sum it up by saying it's not the LP everyone knows and loves. It just has too many things different, and the weight relieving really takes away from the "LP-ness" in my book. I'd rather go find, for example, a Trad that has a low weight. Also, if you do go Gibson, you need to try alot of them out. Their QC is down the drain, so maybe 1 or 2 out of every 10 are worth owning. Faulty hardware and electronics, poor fretting, binding, finishing, etc. are all problems Gibson has right now.

2 out of 10! That's a bit if an overstatement. I have owned multiple gibsons and the QC has always been almost flawless. Only really minor flaws occasionally... I would say 2 out of 3 are worth owning.

Have you ever closely looked for the imperfections? There's always something there nowadays with the guitars they make. Granted most of the time it has nothing to do with the guitar's sound or playability, but I personally just don't want my guitar having cr@ppy binding, or sloppy fret work. I think it shows that Gibson does not care about the quality of instrument their customer is getting, that they rush guitars out so they make more profit. That might be acceptable to some, but I certainly don't.

Honestly, im usually very picky.
The worst problems I've had were grounding problems or small dings.
It may just be luck or that the shop that I buy from stocks good ones on display (I always buy from display), but I've had very few problems with gibsons. I agree that you MUST try out a guitar before you buy it.

[Nitwit]

@OP : I don't know what the second hand market is like in your country, but so far the best "bang for the bucks" (if you're a player I mean) gibbies I met were norlinn area ones - they do have a bad rep and can indeed be pretty bad so never (and I really mean never) buy one without trying it first, but there are a few hidden gems that you can get for a very decent price (1000€ or less).

My (other) 2 cents...

The 2nd hand market is decent, but for the known "brands" you rarely come across one for much less than it would cost new. Most people seem interested in getting the full amount they originally payed for it when they sell it. They seem to be clinging to the whole "It's been played, so it's more valuable" concept.

Once in a while you come across one that's listed at a couple hundred bucks lower than the original list price. But they usually contain sentences like "Neck/Headstock broke, but fixed it at this guy in an alley behind the supermarket" in the ad.

I've heard both good and bad things about the Norlin Era guitars, really can't speak for any of it without trying one.
But sadly, they don't come cheap either. You know, the whole "It's been played, so it's more valuable" concept above?
Replace it with the all time classic "It's old, so it's more valuable". Rarely see a Gibson Les Paul from the 90's and back for less than 2000 pounds.
Which is abit sad, as I quite prefer a Guitar that shows some age.
I always try before I buy, so that's not gonna be an issue. If I just knew what to keep my feelers out for when perusing the body, neck, finish and electrics. But I'm getting good stuff from you guys on that department currently =)

[THW101]

Personally I have found when grabbing an off the shelf new Gibson LP, at various stores to try out pedals or amps etc, I have found that the weight relieved newer standards sound pretty raspy and brittle.

The traditional (non-weight relief) models sound better IMO, but I didn't like the feel of the somewhat tall frets on the last one I remember playing.

As for the neck thing, the 60's neck I find flimsy, but then again I feel that way whenever I pick up most modern style guitars, and find they go out of tune too quickly as well.

When it comes to LP's having owned a few in my time, I have found that you really only get what you pay for, but it is also very easy to get ripped off or pay too much for their higher end variants if you don't do your research properly in the first place but then again the same goes for the lower end range as well.

As for cheaper stuff like the Epiphone range, and other brands, again you still will only get what you pay for. Some of these guitars are made out of cheap nasty wood (but some are quite good too such as the supreme models) and the tone, build quality, and feel of the guitar will reflect that but you can only compare them with your own experiences with previous/other guitars over time.

[BigB]

The 2nd hand market is decent, but for the known "brands" you rarely come across one for much less than it would cost new. Most people seem interested in getting the full amount they originally payed for it when they sell it. They seem to be clinging to the whole "It's been played, so it's more valuable" concept.

Ok, I see. Nothing much to hope then :(

I've heard both good and bad things about the Norlin Era guitars,

And I've played both quite cool guitars and utter lemons from that period. One of them (a 1974 or 75 SG standard) was just so f**d up it was a joke amongst us. My own 1980 SG is just fine and I recently tried a 1976 Deluxe that was well, perhaps not "great" but still a really good LP - and it was selling for 1200€ (I whish I could have bought it).

[Nitwit]

So thx for all your replies here, fellas, truly helpfull.
I'm gonna make a call to my nearest guitar dealer this week and see if they can get some Classic Plus and new Standards ready for me. (Might not actually be able to get down there for the next two weeks though to try em)
However, done some more research on the Standard, not sure if it applies to the Classic Plus. But, the PCB board the pots and pickups go into really baffled me. Not a big issue, but given the choice I wouldn't have one in there. (Guess Gibson has done this for a while, don't judge me!)
Anyways, thx again, and sorry for the needless bump. I shall be back with a NGD announcement and some Pickup choice related questions soon, depending on how this goes.

[TheyCallMeVolume]

Sounds good, keep us updated!

[itamar101]

So thx for all your replies here, fellas, truly helpfull.
I'm gonna make a call to my nearest guitar dealer this week and see if they can get some Classic Plus and new Standards ready for me. (Might not actually be able to get down there for the next two weeks though to try em)
However, done some more research on the Standard, not sure if it applies to the Classic Plus. But, the PCB board the pots and pickups go into really baffled me. Not a big issue, but given the choice I wouldn't have one in there. (Guess Gibson has done this for a while, don't judge me!)
Anyways, thx again, and sorry for the needless bump. I shall be back with a NGD announcement and some Pickup choice related questions soon, depending on how this goes.

PCBs are real pains if you have a problem as you can't find where it is coming from easily and replacing pickups doesn't with in the same way as standard soldering. I suggest that when you replace pots and pickups you should take it to a pro tech and get them to rip it out and install new 500k pots wired normally.

[Nitwit]

So thx for all your replies here, fellas, truly helpfull.
I'm gonna make a call to my nearest guitar dealer this week and see if they can get some Classic Plus and new Standards ready for me. (Might not actually be able to get down there for the next two weeks though to try em)
However, done some more research on the Standard, not sure if it applies to the Classic Plus. But, the PCB board the pots and pickups go into really baffled me. Not a big issue, but given the choice I wouldn't have one in there. (Guess Gibson has done this for a while, don't judge me!)
Anyways, thx again, and sorry for the needless bump. I shall be back with a NGD announcement and some Pickup choice related questions soon, depending on how this goes.

PCBs are real pains if you have a problem as you can't find where it is coming from easily and replacing pickups doesn't with in the same way as standard soldering. I suggest that when you replace pots and pickups you should take it to a pro tech and get them to rip it out and install new 500k pots wired normally.

Well, if a problem arises I'll pull em out myself. I've got a degree in electronics, so I do know my way around a PCB board, pots, capacitors and such in general. Having a tech do it would cost me a buttload when I'm technically qualified to do it myself. (Not that it's hard)
From what I can tell looking at a rather cr@ppy picture of the PCB board, all that has to be done with replacing the pickups should be taking the old ones out, pushing or soldering the new ones into a connector depending on what kind of connector it is and just plug it in there. Now, I haven't seen one of Gibsons PCB boards in person.
Wasn't thinking I'd replace the pots in the guitar though, don't really see the need to as I'm asuming they're good enough, guitar is gonna cost me 1800$ after all.

[itamar101]

So thx for all your replies here, fellas, truly helpfull.
I'm gonna make a call to my nearest guitar dealer this week and see if they can get some Classic Plus and new Standards ready for me. (Might not actually be able to get down there for the next two weeks though to try em)
However, done some more research on the Standard, not sure if it applies to the Classic Plus. But, the PCB board the pots and pickups go into really baffled me. Not a big issue, but given the choice I wouldn't have one in there. (Guess Gibson has done this for a while, don't judge me!)
Anyways, thx again, and sorry for the needless bump. I shall be back with a NGD announcement and some Pickup choice related questions soon, depending on how this goes.

PCBs are real pains if you have a problem as you can't find where it is coming from easily and replacing pickups doesn't with in the same way as standard soldering. I suggest that when you replace pots and pickups you should take it to a pro tech and get them to rip it out and install new 500k pots wired normally.

Well, if a problem arises I'll pull em out myself. I've got a degree in electronics, so I do know my way around a PCB board, pots, capacitors and such in general. Having a tech do it would cost me a buttload when I'm technically qualified to do it myself. (Not that it's hard)
From what I can tell looking at a rather cr@ppy picture of the PCB board, all that has to be done with replacing the pickups should be taking the old ones out, pushing or soldering the new ones into a connector depending on what kind of connector it is and just plug it in there. Now, I haven't seen one of Gibsons PCB boards in person.
Wasn't thinking I'd replace the pots in the guitar though, don't really see the need to as I'm asuming they're good enough, guitar is gonna cost me 1800$ after all.

The pots are pretty decent but the the volume pots are 300k. All I recommend is that if you get the Holy Diver replace the pots with 500k pots.

[Nitwit]

So thx for all your replies here, fellas, truly helpfull.
I'm gonna make a call to my nearest guitar dealer this week and see if they can get some Classic Plus and new Standards ready for me. (Might not actually be able to get down there for the next two weeks though to try em)
However, done some more research on the Standard, not sure if it applies to the Classic Plus. But, the PCB board the pots and pickups go into really baffled me. Not a big issue, but given the choice I wouldn't have one in there. (Guess Gibson has done this for a while, don't judge me!)
Anyways, thx again, and sorry for the needless bump. I shall be back with a NGD announcement and some Pickup choice related questions soon, depending on how this goes.

PCBs are real pains if you have a problem as you can't find where it is coming from easily and replacing pickups doesn't with in the same way as standard soldering. I suggest that when you replace pots and pickups you should take it to a pro tech and get them to rip it out and install new 500k pots wired normally.

Well, if a problem arises I'll pull em out myself. I've got a degree in electronics, so I do know my way around a PCB board, pots, capacitors and such in general. Having a tech do it would cost me a buttload when I'm technically qualified to do it myself. (Not that it's hard)
From what I can tell looking at a rather cr@ppy picture of the PCB board, all that has to be done with replacing the pickups should be taking the old ones out, pushing or soldering the new ones into a connector depending on what kind of connector it is and just plug it in there. Now, I haven't seen one of Gibsons PCB boards in person.
Wasn't thinking I'd replace the pots in the guitar though, don't really see the need to as I'm asuming they're good enough, guitar is gonna cost me 1800$ after all.

The pots are pretty decent but the the volume pots are 300k. All I recommend is that if you get the Holy Diver replace the pots with 500k pots.

Well, haven't decided on a set of pickups yet. But I'm leaning towards Nailbomb bridge and Emerald neck atm. If at all compatable with each other, might change the neck to Holydiver or the bridge to something slightly less hotter. But that's a discussion for another time.
300k pots. Uhm, Don't really like the sound of that. But, whatever it is I chose to go with I'll try it out with the pots as they are, if I hate it I'll get some new pots and rewire the beauty. (Last I checked no Push/pull BKP pots, so gotta get em post buy anyways) That said, I will most likely change those pots, thx  =)
Ofcourse, all this might be irrelevant if I go with the Classic Plus (Unless they too got that darn PCB, checked can't find any info on that, guessing they're wired normal) But I really like the sound of a 60s style asymmetrical neck which is on the Standard.

[itamar101]

So thx for all your replies here, fellas, truly helpfull.
I'm gonna make a call to my nearest guitar dealer this week and see if they can get some Classic Plus and new Standards ready for me. (Might not actually be able to get down there for the next two weeks though to try em)
However, done some more research on the Standard, not sure if it applies to the Classic Plus. But, the PCB board the pots and pickups go into really baffled me. Not a big issue, but given the choice I wouldn't have one in there. (Guess Gibson has done this for a while, don't judge me!)
Anyways, thx again, and sorry for the needless bump. I shall be back with a NGD announcement and some Pickup choice related questions soon, depending on how this goes.

PCBs are real pains if you have a problem as you can't find where it is coming from easily and replacing pickups doesn't with in the same way as standard soldering. I suggest that when you replace pots and pickups you should take it to a pro tech and get them to rip it out and install new 500k pots wired normally.

Well, if a problem arises I'll pull em out myself. I've got a degree in electronics, so I do know my way around a PCB board, pots, capacitors and such in general. Having a tech do it would cost me a buttload when I'm technically qualified to do it myself. (Not that it's hard)
From what I can tell looking at a rather cr@ppy picture of the PCB board, all that has to be done with replacing the pickups should be taking the old ones out, pushing or soldering the new ones into a connector depending on what kind of connector it is and just plug it in there. Now, I haven't seen one of Gibsons PCB boards in person.
Wasn't thinking I'd replace the pots in the guitar though, don't really see the need to as I'm asuming they're good enough, guitar is gonna cost me 1800$ after all.

The pots are pretty decent but the the volume pots are 300k. All I recommend is that if you get the Holy Diver replace the pots with 500k pots.

Well, haven't decided on a set of pickups yet. But I'm leaning towards Nailbomb bridge and Emerald neck atm. If at all compatable with each other, might change the neck to Holydiver or the bridge to something slightly less hotter. But that's a discussion for another time.
300k pots. Uhm, Don't really like the sound of that. But, whatever it is I chose to go with I'll try it out with the pots as they are, if I hate it I'll get some new pots and rewire the beauty. (Last I checked no Push/pull BKP pots, so gotta get em post buy anyways) That said, I will most likely change those pots, thx  =)
Ofcourse, all this might be irrelevant if I go with the Classic Plus (Unless they too got that darn PCB, checked can't find any info on that, guessing they're wired normal) But I really like the sound of a 60s style asymmetrical neck which is on the Standard.

Oh, I said that badly the STANDARD has 500k pots. Most others (including the classic plus) have 300k volume pots.

[Nitwit]

So thx for all your replies here, fellas, truly helpfull.
I'm gonna make a call to my nearest guitar dealer this week and see if they can get some Classic Plus and new Standards ready for me. (Might not actually be able to get down there for the next two weeks though to try em)
However, done some more research on the Standard, not sure if it applies to the Classic Plus. But, the PCB board the pots and pickups go into really baffled me. Not a big issue, but given the choice I wouldn't have one in there. (Guess Gibson has done this for a while, don't judge me!)
Anyways, thx again, and sorry for the needless bump. I shall be back with a NGD announcement and some Pickup choice related questions soon, depending on how this goes.

PCBs are real pains if you have a problem as you can't find where it is coming from easily and replacing pickups doesn't with in the same way as standard soldering. I suggest that when you replace pots and pickups you should take it to a pro tech and get them to rip it out and install new 500k pots wired normally.

Well, if a problem arises I'll pull em out myself. I've got a degree in electronics, so I do know my way around a PCB board, pots, capacitors and such in general. Having a tech do it would cost me a buttload when I'm technically qualified to do it myself. (Not that it's hard)
From what I can tell looking at a rather cr@ppy picture of the PCB board, all that has to be done with replacing the pickups should be taking the old ones out, pushing or soldering the new ones into a connector depending on what kind of connector it is and just plug it in there. Now, I haven't seen one of Gibsons PCB boards in person.
Wasn't thinking I'd replace the pots in the guitar though, don't really see the need to as I'm asuming they're good enough, guitar is gonna cost me 1800$ after all.

The pots are pretty decent but the the volume pots are 300k. All I recommend is that if you get the Holy Diver replace the pots with 500k pots.

Well, haven't decided on a set of pickups yet. But I'm leaning towards Nailbomb bridge and Emerald neck atm. If at all compatable with each other, might change the neck to Holydiver or the bridge to something slightly less hotter. But that's a discussion for another time.
300k pots. Uhm, Don't really like the sound of that. But, whatever it is I chose to go with I'll try it out with the pots as they are, if I hate it I'll get some new pots and rewire the beauty. (Last I checked no Push/pull BKP pots, so gotta get em post buy anyways) That said, I will most likely change those pots, thx  =)
Ofcourse, all this might be irrelevant if I go with the Classic Plus (Unless they too got that darn PCB, checked can't find any info on that, guessing they're wired normal) But I really like the sound of a 60s style asymmetrical neck which is on the Standard.

Oh, I said that badly the STANDARD has 500k pots. Most others (including the classic plus) have 300k volume pots.

Aah. Allrighty then. Cheers =)

[nfe]

If you want an opinion on a LP Standard, I'd would sum it up by saying it's not the LP everyone knows and loves. It just has too many things different, and the weight relieving really takes away from the "LP-ness" in my book. I'd rather go find, for example, a Trad that has a low weight. Also, if you do go Gibson, you need to try alot of them out. Their QC is down the drain, so maybe 1 or 2 out of every 10 are worth owning. Faulty hardware and electronics, poor fretting, binding, finishing, etc. are all problems Gibson has right now.

Traditionals are weight relieved. Standards are fully chambered. The only LPs that are guaranteed not to be weight relieved are VOS models.

That said, the 2012 LP is closer to the classic LPs than the 2008 was.