Changing from Antiquities to Mules

[Landis]

I am going to put some Bare Knuckles in a Les Paul and my instincts are saying Mules. The Ants are a little bright. I can sort that with the tone controls (!) but I want to experiment and try something else. I play through a tweed combo. mainly either clean or just pushed into break-up. Knopfler on Brothers in Arms (the track)  is probably about as far as I want to move away from clean. I don't use pedals.
If you have Mules in a Les Paul I would be grateful if you could put yourself in my shoes and tell me what you think. And if you know Antiquities in a Les Paul - even more so.
Thanks.

[Landis]

Something else has just occured to me. I like Tim Shaw pickups in a Les Paul. (I think they were used on the BIA track I mentioned) Hmmm.....

[Telerocker]

But you still want Mules  :lol:

[Twinfan]

To be honest Mules and Antiquities are going to be pretty much in the same ballpark, I don't think you're going to hear that much of a difference between them?

[Landis]

To be honest Mules and Antiquities are going to be pretty much in the same ballpark, I don't think you're going to hear that much of a difference between them?

Now that's interesting. I'm thinking that to a sensitive soul like me the difference between a Stormy Monday and a Mule is going to sound huge and maybe that perspective is wrong.
And now that you have said that I am also wondering if my 20 +  year old Antiquities which have been heavily used with no covers on, are f*cked and that is why they are considerably less loud, and brighter than my Tim Shaw pickups.

[BigB]

And now that you have said that I am also wondering if my 20 +  year old Antiquities which have been heavily used with no covers on, are f*cked and that is why they are considerably less loud, and brighter than my Tim Shaw pickups.

Pups do wear a bit from aging (magnet degaussing mainly) but that's a very slow process and 20 years shouldn't make a "considerable" difference. You can also have shorts in the wires, either "small" ones that will only short out a few turns (slightly change the tone and output level but not necessarily that much) or more severe ones but these are pretty obvious :mrgreen:.

To make a long story short : I don't know zilch about Antiquities nor Tim Shaw, but the diffence more probably comes from material and winding IMHO. "less loud" + "brighter" usually means less wound (for the same magnet and wire, more wire turns = more output level but less high end).

[ericsabbath]

the tim shaws I had in an '81 les paul were VERY low output (lower than a mule)
stormy mondays should sound similar
if you want a bigger but still soft tone, with more sustain and midrange push, the black dog is amazing

but concerning the antiquities, if you use them a lot live, the sweat might get something shorted indeed
I had this problem with an extremely aged dimarzio PAF from late 70's that came stock in my greco lp
the bridge pickup is completely brown looking, has very low volume and sounds a lot brighter than the neck pickup (the pickups are exactly the same... 7.5k, and short alnico 5 magnet, like a gibson t-top)
it works fine, no strange noises or distortion, but has no DC reading
I replaced them with a black dog in the bridge, cold sweat in the neck (although the neck pickup sounded good)

[BigB]

it works fine (...) but has no DC reading

Uhu...  "works fine", really ? :lol:

[Twinfan]

Tim Shaw's aren't true PAF clones - they're as close as he could get with the materials he was allowed to use.  If your Antiquities are less loud, and brighter ,they sound like they should do - good PAF clones.

I find Stormy Mondays a little softer and sweeter sounding than the slightly brighter and crisper Mules.  We're talking fairly subtle differences though - do you like Pepsi or the supermarket's brand cola?  Try a set of BKPs if you fancy trying something else, but I wouldn't expect a night and day difference....

[ericsabbath]

it works fine (...) but has no DC reading

Uhu...  "works fine", really ? :lol:

 :lol:
well, nothing wrong with the tone, except that it's not as loud as the other one, and sounds treblier
it doesn't actually sound like it's broken, so yeah, works fine
I had a similar problem with a gibson 500t years ago, and that one sounded awful

[Brow]

I went from Duncan Seth Lovers (not Antiquities I know but close) to BKP Mules in my Gibson LP and don't regret the change for a second.

I always liked the Seths but when I tried Mules that was it for me. The Mules have more treble than the Seths, but aren't overly bright. I'd say they're pretty neutral tonally; no 1 frequesncy band seems to be more apparent than any other.

I'm also running mine with the standard 300k Gibson pots. Alot of people change to 500k pots, I may try it in the future, but am perfectly happy at the minute.

[ericsabbath]

Tim Shaw's aren't true PAF clones - they're as close as he could get with the materials he was allowed to use.  If your Antiquities are less loud, and brighter ,they sound like they should do - good PAF clones.

I find Stormy Mondays a little softer and sweeter sounding than the slightly brighter and crisper Mules.  We're talking fairly subtle differences though - do you like Pepsi or the supermarket's brand cola?  Try a set of BKPs if you fancy trying something else, but I wouldn't expect a night and day difference....

yeah, shaws had poly coated wire and 7.5k, just like 70's t-tops
they only got bigger isotropic magnets, so they're supposedly smoother
mules sound tighter and have a bell-like clarity

[Deafcat64]

I used Antiquities in my SG for a year or had the chance to try it with Mules for a while, and I was pleased with the change. The Mules are a bit fuller in the mids, and the clarity is better. You won't notice a huge difference, but to me, the clarity was worth it.

[HTH AMPS]

The Les Paul I still play has had all kinds of PAF types over the years including Mules and Antiquities - I found the latter too low in output for me, but they did have something about them with a crancked plexi that nailed the Angus rhythm (chord) tone, just that the single notes were thin and weak with no sustain.  The Mules were definitely hotter, but still struggled to get that 'push' with a plexi (imo).  I went for some Crawlers and they were similarly voiced (well, in the same ballpark), but were way more midrangey and modern.  The best PAF-type was the Abraxas by a mile - not nearly as hot as you think it's gonna be, doesn't sound like a distortion humbucker at all, just has effortless sustain and cleans up really well. 

For that smooth, buttery Knopfler LP tone, I'd go with an Abraxas bridge and a Mule neck.

[Landis]

the tim shaws I had in an '81 les paul were VERY low output (lower than a mule)
stormy mondays should sound similar

I find Stormy Mondays a little softer and sweeter sounding than the slightly brighter and crisper Mules.

These comments have influenced me! I hadn't realised that the Tim Shaw pickups are very  low output.
Anyway, I ordered Stormy Monday's. They have just arrived (wow - that was quick BKP) so I will soon know if that was a good decision. The guitar they are going in is an old (fifties) Gold Top, routed for PAFs.
I hope to put some real PAFs in this guitar at some point, but in the meantime I want to experiment and that starts here.

HTH AMPS - The Abraxas bridge sounds great! (Maybe in another guitar for me). For this guitar I want to stay "old school".
Thanks to everyone that replied.