I HATE techs!

[itamar101]

Hey...
So, a few days ago I sent my les Paul studio over to mansons guitars to get shielded.
It came back with hugely reduced hum. Yay.
Anyway, to my dismay, I found that one of my tone knobs had been "unglued" and now falls of every time I try to use the push-pull. The other one seems to have been taken out and put back in extremely poorly and it doesn't go all the way down and the bolt holding it onto the body seems out of place (it still works fine though, only a cosmetic problem).

Another problem (and the worst) is that they also seem to have taken out the pickups in order to shield the cavity and then put them back in without taking notes of there original heights. They've left my beautiful holy diver and emeralds sounding like absolute shite :( they sound incredibly bassy and muddy and severely lack high end now and they've lost all there aggressiveness!

I've used 4 techs before and they all seem to have vowed that they will never fix a problem without creating another few :( I am incredibly pissed right now and it's night time... I can't switch on my 30w tube amp let alone crank it enough to set the right pickup height!
I'm gonna lose LOTS of sleep over this tonight.

Anyway, enough ranting. I wanna ask a few question...
1) can I just superglue the knob back onto the tone pot or do I need something special?
2) if anyone has holy divers or emeralds could you please suggest a good startinge point for a nice, clear, aggressive yet smooth sound? I don't even care what guitar or amp they are in... I'm really desperate right now... :(

Thanks so much.

P.S. had I lived closer to croyden I would've taken it to feline in the blink of an eye but I'm afraid that just not practical at the moment :(

I don't know what height they were at so I guess I'm just looking for some help in terms

[Oli]

If a knob is just falling off, either it's been taken off so many times that it is worn out, or it is not the correct knob for the pot shaft. Superglue will work, but don't expect a tech to be happy having to try and take it off if/when the pot requires replacing. I would just replace the knob, as any glue is likely to wear out in that kind of situation anyway.

It sounds to me like you just threw the pickups in there the first time and just got used to the sound-- adjusting pickup height really isn't difficult, especially as the tech likely has not touched the pole pieces! You only have 2 screws to adjust for each pot, so it'll take no longer than 5 mins to get you in the ballpark. 'agressive yet smooth' is contradictory-- aggressive implies a somewhat spikey, harsher sound, whilst smooth is the opposite of it! (generally, closer to the pickups will give more treble and presence to the sound, backing them off will mellow it out a little)

Personally, I find that I can get more aggressiveness out of a pickup by paying a lot of attention to the polepieces themselves, and finding the correct balance between strings. I tend to put the A and D string polepieces a little higher than the E, so that you get a little more midrange bite on those powerchords on the lower 3 strings.

[itamar101]

If a knob is just falling off, either it's been taken off so many times that it is worn out, or it is not the correct knob for the pot shaft. Superglue will work, but don't expect a tech to be happy having to try and take it off if/when the pot requires replacing. I would just replace the knob, as any glue is likely to wear out in that kind of situation anyway.

It sounds to me like you just threw the pickups in there the first time and just got used to the sound-- adjusting pickup height really isn't difficult, especially as the tech likely has not touched the pole pieces! You only have 2 screws to adjust for each pot, so it'll take no longer than 5 mins to get you in the ballpark. 'agressive yet smooth' is contradictory-- aggressive implies a somewhat spikey, harsher sound, whilst smooth is the opposite of it! (generally, closer to the pickups will give more treble and presence to the sound, backing them off will mellow it out a little)

Personally, I find that I can get more aggressiveness out of a pickup by paying a lot of attention to the polepieces themselves, and finding the correct balance between strings. I tend to put the A and D string polepieces a little higher than the E, so that you get a little more midrange bite on those powerchords on the lower 3 strings.

What I meant by aggressive yet smooth was for there to be a spikey midrange but a sweet top end.
When I put the pickups in the first time I spent about and hour slightly adjusting the height and then playing to see how in sounds. Stupidly, I didn't record the height. I'd rather not mess with the pole pieces as I got my preferred sound without messing with them last time

As for the knobs, they've been taken of only twice before.
Ill probably take the impatient and slightly stupid unpractical route of super gluing it as otherwise I'd have to buy it online and I don't really wanna have to pay any more money. The tech already cost loads and I'm skins as it is.

[Toe-Knee]

Have you looked at the inside of the knob? Is it worn? Maybe the pot shaft has just been pinched inwards a little too far and you just have to separate it back out a bit.

[FELINEGUITARS]

The knobs are unlikely to have been glued on in the first place but it is possible that they got resequenced as to which knob went on which pot
As the pot shafts have open splines some will be marginally more splayed than others, so by rearranging the knobs it may have left one combination that as you say is a bit loose.
You can either
1 pull the knobs off and test them on each pot till you get a snug enough fit on all of them
2 put a tiny wrap of tape - masking/electrical or sellotape around the splines of the one that's loose and refit  the knob more securely

With the one that is poking through too much - sounds like the second nut that sits on the shaft inside has unwound and slid down a bit (or a washer has been omitted). to fix that you'd have to undo the nut on the front (you might have to undo all 4 if the pots are all on a metal plate inside) and go inside and wind that internal nut up a couple of turns  so that there is just enough thread showing to get the washer and nut on the front and allow a nice snug fit or the knob.

It may be dead easy or it might be a right pain to do.

As far as a starting point for the pickups - try this:
Lay a BKP pick/plectrum(about 1-1.02mm) on top of the pickup that you are about to adjust - on the coil nearest the neck
Hold the strings down at the last fret (22nd)
Raise the pickup height till the pick only just touches the strings - do this on both sides
This will probably be the closest you'd ever need to get the pickup
I think that the sound you seek wont be too far away though - so lower it a bit at a time till the magic sound is obtained.

Like Oli I like to raise the pole-pieces in the middle 4 to match the camber of the strings - find it adds bite!

We do a lot of screening here as well - sometimes it can be a game-changer as far as noise goes

[Philly Q]

We do a lot of screening here as well - sometimes it can be a game-changer as far as noise goes

Do you think screening/shielding (pick your preferred terminology!) actually affects the basic tone of the guitar?

I've heard claims that shielding cam make a guitar sound duller; I don't know if that's true or if people are mistaking the sudden lack of hum for a reduction in high-end sizzle....?!

[itamar101]

Thanks so much for the advice guys.
It's late so ill try it out tomorrow.

I've tried putting masking tape around the shaft but since its a push-pull it doesn't really help much once i start coil-splitting.

[FELINEGUITARS]

We do a lot of screening here as well - sometimes it can be a game-changer as far as noise goes

Do you think screening/shielding (pick your preferred terminology!) actually affects the basic tone of the guitar?

I've heard claims that shielding cam make a guitar sound duller; I don't know if that's true or if people are mistaking the sudden lack of hum for a reduction in high-end sizzle....?!

Oh I don't know ....
I think it's one of those things that gets said on the internet and nobody is brave enough to challenge and then it gets repeated over and over and by then it must be the truth and if you argue against it then you must be a numpty.

I think you detect a change , but it is mainly the bit of RF noise that isn't that annoying that you always assumed was part of your sound.

Maybe because I tend to package a lot of things together in my builds that add definition and sizzle the offset caused by screening is negligible.

I believe these make a difference sonically:
Decent construction with quarter-sawn woods
Stiff necks with glued in frets
earvana nuts (big extra sizzle factor)
Aluminium tailpieces on LPs etc
50s wiring
Fitting scatter-wound pickups (BKPs)

And then you realise that your amp also has tone controls too!

[FELINEGUITARS]

Thanks so much for the advice guys.
It's late so ill try it out tomorrow.

I've tried putting masking tape around the shaft but since its a push-pull it doesn't really help much once i start coil-splitting.

Push pull pots usually have the coarser "metric/oriental" splined pots , so if the knobs were originally all USA pot fit then it was always going to be a bit tricky .

Do all the height tweaks first that might need the knobs to be taken off and maybe just a dab of superglue to keep the knob on and withstand being used on a push pull

[WezV]

have they actually shielded the pickup cavities too - that can make a noticeable difference to the tone,

i dont like shielded humbucker cavities at all

[itamar101]

have they actually shielded the pickup cavities too - that can make a noticeable difference to the tone,

i dont like shielded humbucker cavities at all

ill have to check.

[Philly Q]

have they actually shielded the pickup cavities too - that can make a noticeable difference to the tone,

i dont like shielded humbucker cavities at all

Sorry for hijacking this into a discussion about shielding, but since Wez and Jonathan are in attendance....

I've never seen much point in shielding humbucker cavities, particularly when they have their own separate cavities like on a Les Paul, SG etc.  After all, the pickup has a metal baseplate, connected to a shielded cable, possibly a metal cover as well.  That seems like plenty of shielding already.

But what about in a Strat, where there's just one BIG cavity for the pickups, electronics and everything?  Fender shield the whole thing, but I've seen it suggested that you might just shield the area around the switch and the pots.  However, that's leaving a fairly large gap where the pickup cables pass through, so the entire area isn't enclosed - doesn't that make the shielding ineffective?

[itamar101]

Update: I couldn't find the superglue so I had another go with the masking tape. I seem to have done a better job than last time and it seems to be quite firmly in place. Ive emailed the tech in regards to getting a new one, seeing as he "broke it" in the first place. I haven't taken a look at the other tone pot yet.

in regards to the pickups:
As far as I can tell the cavity is not shielded but I'll take a better look with a torch soon. I'm not in the mood to actually take the pickups out and check. After all, whether it's shielded or not, I'm gonna let it be.

I've managed to reduce the mud and bring back the clarity. Characteristically it is what I want bar a little too little high end which is an easy fix. It does feel like there is not enough output though. The distortion overpowers the pickup. I'll slightly raise the height soon. I haven't used Jonathan's technique yet.

Thanks.

[itamar101]

Ok, turns out that there actually IS shielding inside the humbucker cavities. Also, the pickups don't seems to clean up as well as I remember... I'm probably just being paranoid though.

The bridge does occasionally drop in volume and it takes a few flicks of the toggle switch to return it to normal. I assume that the misplaced tone pot is the culprit. Any advice?

[dave_mc]

Oh I don't know ....
I think it's one of those things that gets said on the internet and nobody is brave enough to challenge and then it gets repeated over and over and by then it must be the truth and if you argue against it then you must be a numpty.

to TGP! :lol: