Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations

[Nadz1lla]

At some point in the future I am going to be investing in an awesome SLO clone from our very own Toe-Knee, but I'd like to get started with an all-tube / valve (whatever we call it here in Sunny ol' England) for fairly cheap and perhaps pair it up with a valve stomp box of some kind.

Why pair up with a stomp?

Well I am thinking that if I'm going for something either brand new and cheap or even second hand and cheap, it's not going to have much in the way of "features", and I'm looking for something that will, first and foremost, have a really good "clean". If I can get something with a nice clean and a good gain stage too, then double bonus!

To get some background on the sound I like from an amp, I am really quite in love with obviously Soldano SLO 100 (and of course SLO clones) and the awesome Fryette (old VHT) Pittbull 100 CL. So tight, defined sound even when cranked and distorted, something that keeps its definition now matter how hard you drive it.

Am I right in thinking that if I had a really basic tube amp head that only had one or two channels, but had great cleans, I would be able to get close to a similar sound by using stomps with tubes in them? I think there was a SLO drive-type pedal out there with valves in?

I may be barking up the wrong tree, though...

I think I quite like the sound of the Peavey Classic 50, so with a stomp in front of that, would I be able to achieve a similar tonal quality?

I have a feeling I am barking up the wrong tree and should be more patient and wait until I've saved up for a proper amp from Toe-Knee, hah! I'm just so impatient!  :lol:

I got on to this train of thought when looking at that Belcat head and cab deal from Gear4music that was something silly like £329 or whatever. People keep saying that the parts it is made from are really pretty darn decent for the price...

Ramblings of a guitar n00b.  >_<

[Dmoney]

There is the old Soldano Supercharger pedal. It's the SLO lead channel or thereabouts in the form of a pedal preamp. It's very expensive. As expensive as some all valve heads. It's a preamp, rather than a boost.

Someone might have copied it. The schems are easy to find.

The SLO and the Fryette style circuits sound a bit different to me. The fryette style is really tight dry and unforgiving (not in a bad way). The SLO leans to the more classic side but with the depth control and some gain and EQ tinkering it'll do a lot. That SLO lead circuit is in the Jet City amps currently on the road with Avenged Sevenfold and Job For A Cowboy, so it's capable of that modern heavy stuff as well as the 80's kinda thing.

I think to go with that preamp pedal idea you'd need an amp with a loop to get into the FX return, and maybe some wacky switching if you want to use the channels from the amp at the same time. You can try normal drive pedals in front of an amp but I don't think you'll get that close to the tone of either the VHT or Soldano.

I think my advice would be to wait and save the money and put it towards some awesome parts if you go for a clone.

[Telerocker]

I had the Peavey Classic 50 4x10, a nice tubeamp with great cleans and reasonable drivechannel. I would look at Jet City, a budget SLO-style amp. Cheap Digitech Bad Monkey in front and ready to go.

[tekbow]

personally speaking, i think it's a false idea, and definitely misinformation on the part of companies when they say that a tube overdrive is the same thing, essentially, as have an extra preamp channel/valve. it doesn't work that way.

I think you'd get much better, organic, dynamic and real results from a lower wattage amp that you can crank some (blackstars come to mind, they're excellent, esp the HT5) and boosting it with a couple of pedals.

My experience is with a Butler overdrive, and that needs to be crashing in to a cooking power section. they also work well on amps with a lot of headroom but turned up LOUD.

About the only tube based preamp pedal I've heard lives up to the claim of being "another channel" is the kingsley jester. but again it wants a hot power section.

Tou won't get a Soldano sound out of anything but a Soldano or similarly designed amp. and you still won't get the a Soldano sound out of a Soldano unless it's cranked. although to be fair, they're on of the best sounding high wattage amps played at low volume i've heard.

The Supercharger pedal has a reputation for being noisy unfortunately, also, I've never been convinced about what it claims to do, and i'm one of the biggest soldano fans you'll meet.

[Nadz1lla]

See I really like the Peavey Classic 50 idea, what I've heard so far is really good but not been able to try one myself yet.

About Jet City: I've heard that they have some reliability issues? I don't know specifics, anyone else heard anything about that?

[Dmoney]

If you're concerned about that I'd email Jet City. They seem like an honest company. The soldano-esque amps are very similar PCB designs to the non-SLO soldanos. The construction is a little different and the transformers are most likely different spec to what you'd get in an Soldano (after all they aren't exact clones and are designed for mass production) but essentially I don't think Mike Soldano would want his name associated with anything shoddy and he knows his stuff.

If there are failures I would firstly assume chinese valve issues or the odd batch of transformers or something. Valves can fail in shipping or become unstable for example. QC might slip at points. There could have been some minor issue that was subsequently fixed. Other companies mass producing things run into small issues and update designs without customers knowing.

[HTH AMPS]

I've been gigging a Jet City JCA100 (with many mods) for around 10 months now - no problems with reliability.  Also had a few Jet City amps in here for service/bias jobs and can't report any issues with reliability above and beyond normal valve issues.  They're solidly put together amps and great value for money.  I'd like the pots and valve bases to be on separate PCBs, but they again at this price point thats just not an option.

[dave_mc]

I'm not trying to lose toe-knee money or anything (I'm mainly suggesting you do this to tide you over until you can get his SLO clone), but thomann does the jet city stuff for around the price you're thinking of going to. the 50 watt 1x12 combo is around £350 IIRC, and the 22 watt 1x12 combo is around £250. (those are the ones you want, the 2x12 50 watt combo and 20 watt combo have less preamp gain). they don't seem to have the heads in stock at the moment, but maybe they'll get them back :?

I'm not sure there's much point in faffing around with a solution which might not work when you have enough money for a solution which definitely will.

Also i'd say, a lot of those valve pedals are gimmicks. and the ones that aren't cost a lot.

[Nadz1lla]

Aye there is that, and if there are any complaints here and there it's probably what you say, someone didn't check it properly or a bad tube, which is easily replaced.

Been watching some Jet City vids on YouTube and pretty impressed with the sound considering the prices! The JCA50H has caught my eye so far, but am going to search the JCA22H too, as this is mainly for getting that "Tube" sound in my home recording rig, I don't gig much if at all as a guitarist.

[Nadz1lla]

Oh indeed, Dave! I still want a SLO clone in the future, but for now (just watched more videos) I think a Jet City head will give me the juice I'm after without breaking the bank. Also, I might go for the 50W head, because even though I don't play live, I'd want my songs to sound the same (tonally) in a live environment, so whoever plays guitar for me will be borrowing my amp, heh. Plus, there is always the option of a dummy-load for home recording, which makes things much more easy to handle.

 8)

[juansolo]

Am I right in thinking that if I had a really basic tube amp head that only had one or two channels, but had great cleans, I would be able to get close to a similar sound by using stomps with tubes in them? I think there was a SLO drive-type pedal out there with valves in?

I may be barking up the wrong tree, though...

Nope, not barking up the wrong tree at all. Single channel amps, particularly low wattage ones, with a valve pedal on the front of them can do an uncanny impression of a two channel amp. Depending on the amp (see next post).

However if you have a pedal friendly 2 channel amp, there's not a great deal of point in putting a valve pedal in front of it as it'll sound *very* similar to other channel. Certainly not a valve OD anyhow. You can flavour them to a degree, but essentially it's another pre-amp stage running starved plate and that's what it's going to sound like.

FWIW, we've seen a few things that claim to be valve distortions. A few of them seem to have a curious amount of transistors in them...

[juansolo]

personally speaking, i think it's a false idea, and definitely misinformation on the part of companies when they say that a tube overdrive is the same thing, essentially, as have an extra preamp channel/valve. it doesn't work that way.

I think you'd get much better, organic, dynamic and real results from a lower wattage amp that you can crank some (blackstars come to mind, they're excellent, esp the HT5) and boosting it with a couple of pedals.

Yes and no. I've run a Blackstar which did a great low volume impression of a Rectifier. It has a LOT of gain (how it goes about getting this is by essentially using a HT-Dual distortion pedal as the pre-amp section), but doesn't really have a very nice clean. It is an utter bargain for the versatility it offers. But it's crushed by low wattage amps that are in the next bracket up.

But you're right, stick a valve pedal on the front of it and it sounds like shite. FWIW it also sounds like shite on the front of a Jet City JCA20H (The JC loves a Klone though). They both just compress the hell out of it. However stick it on the front of a MJW Goldstar (of either variety) or my new Ampmaker Double Six and it really does sound like another channel. They've got the headroom to cope with them and they sound, frankly, bloody brilliant. A lot depends on the pedal and the amp. There's no hard and fast rule here.

[tekbow]

I find jet city/Soldano's need something with not so much in the way of mids (Klon's/Klone would be pretty flat?). They have a midrange bark that makes a Marshall run back to the kennel and pedals with very pronounced midranges tend to muddy them up too much on anything but a cleanish sound. My tubescreamers sound great driving a bit a cleanish breakup, but boosting a lead sound? just gets muffled and indistinct..

you're right, definitely no hard and fast rules, amp by amp, case by case basis, but as far as the OP goes, on a limited budget, i wouldn't waste the money chasing valve pedals in front of valve amps from that price range. but i think that's already been established  :D

[Telerocker]

Can confirm this. Tried a Radial Tonebone in front of a Koch Multitone. It doesn't really work. An Emma Reezafratzitz-overdrive and an old TS9 sounded stellar on that amp.

[TheyCallMeVolume]

For a cheap and decent tube amp, Blackstar gets my vote.