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Author Topic: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations  (Read 16408 times)

Dmoney

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2012, 09:27:40 AM »
I'm not sure blackstar qualifies as 'all-tube'. Not that this is automatically a bad thing.

juansolo

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2012, 09:56:13 AM »
I'm not sure blackstar qualifies as 'all-tube'. Not that this is automatically a bad thing.

Yeah, I hinted at that ;) Which probably goes some way to explaining why it doesn't like the valve pedals on the front.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 10:10:37 AM by juansolo »
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Nadz1lla

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2012, 11:04:08 AM »
I've not heard great things about the Blackstar cleans, either, to be honest.   :?

tekbow

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2012, 11:33:53 AM »
I think the blackstar cleans thing is always a red herring. When you read these reviews it usually says something along the lines of "cleans aren't on a par with fender cleans". Well.. What are? on the low wattage side they tend to be single channeled affairs where the louder you crank them, the dirtier they get, on the high wattage side there tends to be a clean channel that does what it says on the tin, clean sounds. reviews comparing things like a backstar to a clean fender isn't helpful as thats not the point of the amp, and not really a valid comparison. I don't know many marshalls that do sparkling 3D cleans either, and a Marshall would be a fairer comparison. having gone down and played them, taking into account price range etc, there's nothing wrong with the clean channel. There's nothing exceptional about it either, but you have to take it in context.

Do any of us us much in the way of clean tones anyway? and i mean significantly more than distorted tones, other than for a song, or isolated clean line or rythym part? Look at the demographic of the forum. Most of us are rock and heavier players, the OP was asking about Soldano lead tones, so why does a clean sound suddenly have any bearing on amp choice?

Just saying.

BTW I'm no Blackstar fanboy, just think they're excellent value for money, and what i really like is that they're up front about where they're made. Marshall, for example, isn't..

Telerocker

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #19 on: October 14, 2012, 12:30:26 PM »
Maybe you can also look for a (used) Hughes & Kettner Statesman. I had the Quad (4xEL84) and that combo has very nice cleans (a bit between Fender en Vox, you can tailor it with the brightswitch) and a Marshall-esque drivechannel with a boost. You can tailor the reverb: by example 75 percent for cleans and 25 percent for drive.

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« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 12:32:23 PM by Telerocker »
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Dmoney

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #20 on: October 14, 2012, 12:59:16 PM »
I agree with tekbow about the cleans thing.

As for fender cleans not being the point of those bigger amps, I'm not sure I fully agree. Taking Blackstar as an exmaple, the company isn't very old and I think if you're designing an amp with lots of features and flexibility in mind (The ISF, output power reduction, FX loop, midi switching, clean, crunch, overdrive channels) it doesn't make sense to just chuck in a clean channel for the sake of it. That said, unless you're designing completely discrete preamp circuits and you get clever with switching there will generally be some compromise in the form of shared circuitry. I'm sure when some amps are designed for the gain sound it gets real easy for a marketing bod to say "put a clean channel in that and we'll sell more", but I doubt Blackstar would be lazy when it comes to adding things like that. More features also means more components. Keeping multi-channel amps with discrete preamp circuits can lead to adding a lot of valves, if you want to keep everything pure valve that is. So it stands to reason you'd start using solid state to reduce cost and potentially increase reliability but then you're getting into another potential set of compromises. Look where the JCM900 4100 high gain dual reverb ended up in peoples opinions.

I think all Blackstars apart from the artisan series are hybrids.


tekbow

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #21 on: October 14, 2012, 01:07:04 PM »
I agree with tekbow about the cleans thing.

As for fender cleans not being the point of those bigger amps, I'm not sure I fully agree. Taking Blackstar as an exmaple, the company isn't very old and I think if you're designing an amp with lots of features and flexibility in mind (The ISF, output power reduction, FX loop, midi switching, clean, crunch, overdrive channels) it doesn't make sense to just chuck in a clean channel for the sake of it. That said, unless you're designing completely discrete preamp circuits and you get clever with switching there will generally be some compromise in the form of shared circuitry. I'm sure when some amps are designed for the gain sound it gets real easy for a marketing bod to say "put a clean channel in that and we'll sell more", but I doubt Blackstar would be lazy when it comes to adding things like that. More features also means more components. Keeping multi-channel amps with discrete preamp circuits can lead to adding a lot of valves, if you want to keep everything pure valve that is. So it stands to reason you'd start using solid state to reduce cost and potentially increase reliability but then you're getting into another potential set of compromises. Look where the JCM900 4100 high gain dual reverb ended up in peoples opinions.

I think all Blackstars apart from the artisan series are hybrids.



Good points, agree to an extent, but still hold my position when it comes to lower wattage amps like the HT5 or HT1, the clean is always going to be a compromise on amps like this, even looking at things like the low wattage, single channel cornfords, and thus they shouldn't be judged on their clean sounds when it's clearly not the demographivc they're intended for. There's still a compromise on clean tones. I used marshall as an example thinking in terms of their new mini amps which were based off the sounds of their single channel "Rawk" amps (plexi, JCM 8000 etc).

EDIT: whoops, you were talking about the bigger amps anyways.

Course, one of the most legendary clean sounds out there is from a solid state amp.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2012, 01:13:17 PM by tekbow »

Dmoney

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2012, 01:20:37 PM »

Oh yeah I totally agree with what you're saying about the small wattage things. I remember testing a 15watt valve head out with a 498T equipped semi hollow and that was pushing the amp hard. Much harder than a strat with single coils. So yeah, for amazing cleans you probably want more headroom. When you said marshall I thought you meant comparing larger amp clean channels. Blackstar shares a Marshall lineage to an extent, so I think that comparison is still the more appropriate one through the range than comparing Blackstar cleans with Fender.

As for the legendary amp I assume you mean the Jazz Chorus?

tekbow

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2012, 01:28:29 PM »
The story i heard floating about was that the blackstar guys are ex marshall who got fed up with marshall charging uk made prices for stuff that was essentially far east manufactured and uk assembled (the Handwired series being the exception). Spotted a gap in the pricing and went at it. good for them.

Yup, the JC120  PDT_003 I think a fair amount of that sparkle is the built in chorus, but it works. To me, if it sounds good, it is good.

Dmoney

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #24 on: October 14, 2012, 01:50:29 PM »
Well, if it sounds good then it sounds good.

The Blackstar guys are indeed ex Marshall. The story I heard was that they were constrained by the brand as to what designs and ideas they could really test out so they decided to go it alone. Probably a bit of both.

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #25 on: October 14, 2012, 01:55:32 PM »
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tekbow

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #26 on: October 14, 2012, 02:07:31 PM »
very quickly - what about this baby 30 minutes left on bidding but collection only

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jet-City-JCA100H-amplifier-head-/221136554711?pt=UK_MusicalInstr_Amplifiers_RL&hash=item337cc40ad7

that guy will back out of that when it doesn't make what he wants it to

tekbow

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #27 on: October 14, 2012, 02:27:01 PM »
went for £157, whether he holds to that remains to be seen.

Nadz1lla

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #28 on: October 14, 2012, 05:31:14 PM »
Wow, I was looking for Jet City on ebay and didn't see that! Oh, actually I think I specified the 50w head, that might be why. Damn! Someone got a bargain!  :(

dave_mc

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Re: Low-cost all-valve heads + stomp combinations
« Reply #29 on: October 14, 2012, 09:45:54 PM »
BTW I'm no Blackstar fanboy, just think they're excellent value for money, and what i really like is that they're up front about where they're made. Marshall, for example, isn't..

are they? they have union jacks plastered all over them. :lol: and they're not particularly up-front about their being hybrids :lol:

and yeah, the jet cities sound pretty good if you can get them at thomann prices. i haven't tried them head to head, but it sounds like a soldano to me. at least well within the ballpark.

Not much in the way of cleans, though.

oh and one of the preamp shields on mine came off in transit (and i couldn't get it back on :lol: ). But i haven't had any other problems (not that home use is exactly taxing it, of course).