JB alternative

[photone]

Hello,
I want to upgrade my Gretsch Electromatic Double Jet  G5248T with some BK pickups and I feel lost trying to find the best solution. So, my guitar is a double-cutaway Double Jet features a chambered mahogany solid body with arched maple top, set mahogany neck with rosewood fretboard. I have in  the Seymour Duncan JB bridge +Jazz neck. I like to play some melodic metal, a lot of rhythm parts and cleans, but without screaming leads, and the guitar is tuned in C.
Ok, why Gretsch for metal? .. becouse I think is a very versatile guitar with amazing cleans and a very good response for high gain stuffs,but with the right pickups. The Seymour Duncan  JB+Jazz  are ok. I have also  the triple shot rings for spliting options, and the JAZZ pickup can do amaizing cleans. Now, the JB is good and I like it but it is maybe a little to crispy on treble side and under higher gain setup the low end becoming muddy and lost definition on rhythm parts. So I try to find a better pickup combination that will be good for my guitar specifications ( chambered solid mahogany body with arched maple top, mahogany neck and rosewood fingerboard) tuned in C. It is more important to me to find first a bridge pickup. Firs look is for high output pickups but also a vintage hot that can handle well high gain setup could be a solution.
Thank you for any input!

[Mr. Air]

I think you should have a look at the Cold Sweat set. It's on the bright side tone wise, I think it'll go really well with a mahogonay guitar and the drop c tuning. The Cold Sweat neck has a lot of fans amongst the metal crowd for its great cleans and fluid lead tone. If you want something with more aggression in the bridge position have a look at the Nailbomb.

[BigB]

Hi and welcome.

The usual suspects for people looking for "a better JB" are the Holydiver and Alnico Nailbomb - but none of them will sound just like a JB :mrgreen:. The ABomb is way more aggressive - "abrasive" might be the word here. Can't tell much more about the HD (never had a chance to try it yet), but you'll find quite a few opinions on HD vs JB searching this forum and for the kind of tones you mention (and what you liek and silike about the JB) I think the HD might be a better fit.

A lower gain option for a warm and full sounding bridge might be the Black Dog (disclaimer : no personal experience with it), and if you guitar is bright enough you may also want to have a look at the Crawler bridge (about the same output level as the JB, rather warm and fat with still enough highs to cut thru).

wrt/ neck pup, I replaced the Jazz in my SG with a Mule, and it's jsut everything the Jazz would like to be. I might replace it with something a bit brighter (RiffRaff or else) one day cause it's a rather dark SG, but the cleans are so good I still have not pulled the trigger.

[photone]

Thank u very much for the sugestions.
Ok, maybe "melodic metal" wasn't the best to describe what like to play :roll: So closer could be a down tempo metal with atmospheric parts. Basically with a lot of long sustained down tuned riffs and some palm mutting parts (not tight agressive speed rhythm  metal parts) , clean parts and some lead parts but not  fast screaming solos. Anyway I want to retain some clarity and definition under rhythmic parts  without lose thickness, and for that the Seymour Duncan JB tend to loss the definition and clarity on bottom end becoming    a bit muddy  with higher gain  amplifier setups. Now this could be becouse my guitar maybe isn't a typical  "metal guitar" having a  double cutaway chambered mahogany solid body with arched maple top. Unplugged acoustically resonate well and for that reason the cleans are amazing but distorted tend to "amplify" the sound and with high gain setups I lose definition and clarity.
So don't know if the guitar it could be caled"bright" but  it seems that  the JB tend to accentuate the resonance   of my guitar's chambered body.  In other words I like JB maybe 80% for what can deliver, in my setup, but I need that 20%. So  need a  JB style pickup but without "ice picking" treble and a better definition and clarity at bottom end but without loosing thickness, and all that in C tuned  chambered mahogany body guitar  :P
Maybe the Hollydriver is better or even the Crawler or Aftermath? or...

[BigB]

Anyway I want to retain some clarity and definition under rhythmic parts

I have yet to hear a BKP that (installed in the proper guitar) would lack clarity and definition.

 without lose thickness, and for that the Seymour Duncan JB tend to loss the definition and clarity on bottom end becoming    a bit muddy  with higher gain  amplifier setups. Now this could be becouse my guitar maybe isn't a typical  "metal guitar" having a  double cutaway chambered mahogany solid body with arched maple top. Unplugged acoustically resonate better and for that reason the cleans are amazing but distorted tend to "amplify" the sound and with high gain setups I lose definition and clarity.

I'v had the JB in my SG and it behaved just like you describe. Neither the RiffRaff nor the ABomb exihibited any of these problems (same guitar, same rig).

I also have RiffRaff in a semi-hollow, and it doesn't loose any clarity or definition even under maximum gain (wether on a cranked Fender BF type amp boosted with a couple ODs or on a full cranked SLO-like hi-gain amp).

I have no experience with Holydiver so I can't seriously comment, chances are it might fit your needs but I'll leave it to somenone more knowledgeable.  The Crawler has the "fat chunky yet clear" features but the lows will probably not be tight and fast enough for your needs - specially droptuned to C.

[Telerocker]

I would look at the Holy Diver. Gretsches have usually a brighter natural voice then say a LP and the HD will provide the necessary beef. To that comes the chambered body. A Cold Sweat for instance might be too bright. The HD produces delicious full solotones too. One of the best BKP's for leads.

[darkbluemurder]

Holy Diver or Rebel Yell would both provide increased clarity over the JB in the bridge position. However, the RY will definitely be brighter than the JB.

For the neck, I would go with either the Holydiver, Abraxas, Cold Sweat or Emerald. Best to ask Tim.

Cheers Stephan

[photone]

Holy Diver

.. at the  moment the Holy Driver seems to be the closest to my needs, but still not 100% sure. Also the Crawler.
I need  use a heavier gauge strings (12-56 ) to manage the C tuning, so the low end response is increased ,but the JB can't handle well that loosing clarity and definition. I think  the Holy Driver  can do it better. Or maybe a ceramic pickup?

[Telerocker]

You don't want the Crawler for metal. I think the HD and the A-Bomb do this better.

[ericsabbath]

I'd pick something lower output for a chambered guitar
a vhii or black dog should be fine
they're like clearer and less compressed versions of the nailbomb and holy diver, respectively

[TheyCallMeVolume]

When I hear something with melodic or atmospheric used in the description, I tend to favor lower output pickups for it. I feel like it has a clarity and openness that helps those tunes alot. VHII, Black Dog, or even a Riff Raff. Like Eric said, you could kinda say VHII= Nailbomb, Black Dog= Holy Diver, and Riff Raff= Rebel Yell. I like VHII for this application.

[dvorak]

I use 10-52 in open C on a 24,5" single cut Vintage equipped with HDs. It's a quite dark guitar, and the HDs do their job great there. Great clarity even with the shorter scale and drop tuning. I love that pup! And the HD in the neck is really good too  :D

[Slartibartfarst42]

For a vastly improved JB tone, your first port of call really has to be the Holydiver. However, as you're tuned down to 'C', I'd also strongly suggest the Miracle Man. It's a LOT closer to the Holydiver than you'd imagine as it's thick, warm, organic and fluid but it's also more aggressive and tighter so will probably cope better with the low tuning.

[photone]

I made a A-B comparation with a ESP LTD EC-1000 (set neck, mahogany body, with rosewood fretboard, and EMG 81-60 pickups) with a Peavey 6505 + Framus FR212CB guitar cabinet with  2x 12" Celestion Vintage 30 speakers.  Without going into a detailed conclusion, under higher gain setup my Gretsch with JB sound"richer and fuller" but increasing the  volume the bottom end become muddy and the treble side become unpleasantly tight with some harsh with long sustained notes, while the EMG sound more sterile but remain clearer. The cleans are way better with Gretsch.
If the HolyDriver or even Miracle Man can improve that JB's weekness and can deliver good cleans too,handling well  my  lower tuning necessity,will be perfect.
The lower output pickups could be a good solution but don't want to use compresor or Tubescreamer to achieve the disered high gain tone. Annyway  the Black Dog and the BlackHawk could be a lower output solution.
Until now I'm thinking for  HolyDriver, MiracleMan   or even Nailbomb (ceramic or alnico), and the Black Dog and the BlackHawk for lower output solution. Finally  who can do good cleans too, will be the winner for me.
So still thinking  :idea: ...

[ericsabbath]

blackhawk isn't low output at all