JB alternative

[photone]

... hmm...  I'm spending hours on forum  and Youtube trying to understand how actually sound  this pickups, to see if  found what I need. I understand that all deliver a  wery good balanced tone quality,  but also the word "tight" is used a lot for low end  tone side, especially with higher output pickups.  If the tight =  agressive, abrazive, "in your face" , then not what I'm for looking, because my doom down tempo metal  playing style need something else.
So wich higher output pickup can be associate  with "smooth, fat, warm"  low end, balanced mids and sweet top end, but also clear and articulated without beeing muddy under higher gain setup, for a low tuned chambered mahogany guitar?
 Anyway,thank you guys helping me to understand why BK pickups  are different pickups ,but  in a good way...

[Slartibartfarst42]

I'm not sure it's quite that straightforward as a pickup has a lot of variables. In general terms you can probably say that ceramic pups are tighter and more aggressive sounding than alnico based ones but having said that, an A-Bomb is one of the tightest and most aggressive pickups I've ever tried. To me it seemed tighter and more aggressive than either a Cold Sweat or Miracle Man. By the same token, 'Tight' does not always mean 'aggressive'. A Cold Sweat is a pickup with plenty tightness but I wouldn't say it sounds that aggressive at all and even has decent cleans for a ceramic pup.

Your description of the tone you're looking for is, without a doubt, a Holydiver. That pickup is exactly as you describe it. It's got a very 80's Metal feel going on, a bit like Doug Aldrich and Jake E. Lee. There are only two reasons why I hesitate with the Holydiver. First is simply because I've never personally tried it with such a low tuning (I'm only down half a step from standard) so I don't know how tight it will stay that far down. Secondly, your description of 'doom down tempo Metal' suggests something with a slightly more modern edge to it and that's where I get the idea of the Miracle Man from. Like the Holydiver, it can be described as 'smooth, fat, warm' but it has a slightly more aggressive edge to it and it's also tighter for the lower tuning. The Nailbomb sounded nothing like either the Holydiver or Miracle Man to me and more importantly, doesn't match your description of tone as well.

Overall, I think I'd go with the Miracle Man for what you want.

[itamar101]

I'm not sure it's quite that straightforward as a pickup has a lot of variables. In general terms you can probably say that ceramic pups are tighter and more aggressive sounding than alnico based ones but having said that, an A-Bomb is one of the tightest and most aggressive pickups I've ever tried. To me it seemed tighter and more aggressive than either a Cold Sweat or Miracle Man. By the same token, 'Tight' does not always mean 'aggressive'. A Cold Sweat is a pickup with plenty tightness but I wouldn't say it sounds that aggressive at all and even has decent cleans for a ceramic pup.

Your description of the tone you're looking for is, without a doubt, a Holydiver. That pickup is exactly as you describe it. It's got a very 80's Metal feel going on, a bit like Doug Aldrich and Jake E. Lee. There are only two reasons why I hesitate with the Holydiver. First is simply because I've never personally tried it with such a low tuning (I'm only down half a step from standard) so I don't know how tight it will stay that far down. Secondly, your description of 'doom down tempo Metal' suggests something with a slightly more modern edge to it and that's where I get the idea of the Miracle Man from. Like the Holydiver, it can be described as 'smooth, fat, warm' but it has a slightly more aggressive edge to it and it's also tighter for the lower tuning. The Nailbomb sounded nothing like either the Holydiver or Miracle Man to me and more importantly, doesn't match your description of tone as well.

Overall, I think I'd go with the Miracle Man for what you want.

I use my lp with holy divers in drop C constantly with 11-49s and it still sounds reasonably tight and clear even through my orange TH30 which is nowhere near as tight and bright as a 6505. I think it'd be great great choice Seeing as its also rather good at cleans... Probably more-so that the MM and the A-Bomb.
The black hawk (although rather high output) has been praised for charity and cleens, though and the black dog also had very nice cleans.

[Alex]

I have used the Holy Diver and I still have the Black Dog and Nailbomb.

While the Holy Diver is maybe closest to the the JB, I'd recommend the Black Dog for your type of guitar.

Also, it can sound more "brutal" than the HD, which, in my experience, tends to sound more saturated and smooth. I would not have any problems recommending the BD for any metal application - it needs more push from a pedal, but works just great.

The Nailbomb is just as others described - it has a bit more of an abrasive mid range. I feel the NB is the perfect pickup for Dream Theater-style sounds.

[ericsabbath]

While the Holy Diver is maybe closest to the the JB, I'd recommend the Black Dog for your type of guitar.

Also, it can sound more "brutal" than the HD, which, in my experience, tends to sound more saturated and smooth. I would not have any problems recommending the BD for any metal application - it needs more push from a pedal, but works just great.

+1
except for the dog being able to get more "brutal" than the diver
the diver gets aggressive pretty easily
the dog can get there, but it's still more polite
both need some boosting, imo, but a 6505+ would do the job alone anyway

[photone]

 Thank you guys again for all your suggestions...
I send a email to Tim with my "problem" and somehow surprisingly to me (at first look) , he recomand me a set of Nailbombs with ceramic in bridge for " improved bass definition, a clearer mid range and more classic voicing, becouse Nailbombs are very good with lower tunings and have a lovely organic, rich character".
 So if the Nailbomb can do all af that is perfect, but I'm still not convinced if the ceramic Naibomb not have that  "brighter cut in the high end" like  JB  that iritate me. Maybe the alnico version of Nailbomb have smoother highs and not very tight low end. However, until now listening hundreds of clips on Youtube , my conclusion is that the Alnico  BKpickups are tighter and more accurate than  some other manufacturers alnico based pickups ( at least compared to my Semour Duncan JB ), so maybe the  BK ceramic have to much "tight" for my taste. But again I think maybe I'm not 100% clear with how actually this pickups sound. I'm still digging on Youtube for a clip with a similar guitar to mine, with BK pickups ( a Gretsch with BK pickups for  doom metal is hard to find :P , think a newer model of  Les Paul Studio that have chambered body and rosewood fretboard is close enough).

[BigB]

So if the Nailbomb can do all af that is perfect, but I'm still not convinced if the ceramic Naibomb not have that  "brighter cut in the high end" like  JB  that iritate me.

 Maybe the alnico version of Nailbomb have smoother highs

Can't compare with CBomb but I wouldn't label the ABomb highs as "smooth" in any way, and that's in a dark SG. Not harsh not brittle nor thin, but definitly not smooth.

and not very tight low end.

The ABomb is as tight - and often tighter - than most ceramic pups I've played so far.
 

[Alex]

Thank you guys again for all your suggestions...
I send a email to Tim with my "problem" and somehow surprisingly to me (at first look) , he recomand me a set of Nailbombs with ceramic in bridge for " improved bass definition, a clearer mid range and more classic voicing, becouse Nailbombs are very good with lower tunings and have a lovely organic, rich character".
 So if the Nailbomb can do all af that is perfect, but I'm still not convinced if the ceramic Naibomb not have that  "brighter cut in the high end" like  JB  that iritate me. Maybe the alnico version of Nailbomb have smoother highs and not very tight low end. However, until now listening hundreds of clips on Youtube , my conclusion is that the Alnico  BKpickups are tighter and more accurate than  some other manufacturers alnico based pickups ( at least compared to my Semour Duncan JB ), so maybe the  BK ceramic have to much "tight" for my taste. But again I think maybe I'm not 100% clear with how actually this pickups sound. I'm still digging on Youtube for a clip with a similar guitar to mine, with BK pickups ( a Gretsch with BK pickups for  doom metal is hard to find :P , think a newer model of  Les Paul Studio that have chambered body and rosewood fretboard is close enough).

The Nailbomb has a warm and full top end. It's the mids that are aggressive.
The Alnico version is plenty tight.

[Alex]

While the Holy Diver is maybe closest to the the JB, I'd recommend the Black Dog for your type of guitar.

Also, it can sound more "brutal" than the HD, which, in my experience, tends to sound more saturated and smooth. I would not have any problems recommending the BD for any metal application - it needs more push from a pedal, but works just great.

+1
except for the dog being able to get more "brutal" than the diver
the diver gets aggressive pretty easily
the dog can get there, but it's still more polite
both need some boosting, imo, but a 6505+ would do the job alone anyway

I swear in my guitar (an SG) the BD is super heavy and way more brutal sounding once boosted. It even outclasses my EMGs.

[photone]

The Nailbomb has a warm and full top end. It's the mids that are aggressive.
The Alnico version is plenty tight.

..in that case the ceramic Nailbomb  maybe is more appropriate to my needs, as Tim recomended, maybe  because has a smoother mids , but ,again... is ceramic = tighter and more cuting top end, so don't know...
Anyway The A-bomb could be considered tighter than Miracle Man?

[BigB]

The Nailbomb has a warm and full top end.

"full" : yes - but not as thick as the Crawler. "warm" ? well, it's not "cold" for sure XD, but it's not rounded nor smooth nor... well, you get the point. One thing is sure is that you have no problem cutting through a very dense mix with a Abomb bridge.

It's the mids that are aggressive.
The Alnico version is plenty tight.

I agree on both points. Also, it's a surprisingly clear, dynamic and open-sounding pup given it's output level, and it cleans up beautifully with the volume pot.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Tim's a great guy but he does suggest Nailbombs for an awful lot of things; he did with me and it's the only time he's been wrong. The Nailbomb is NOTHING like a JB and NOTHING like a Holydiver. The Holydiver is warm, fat and smooth and the Nailbomb is none of those things. If you want an improved JB, don't get the Nailbomb.

[visitorQ]

I'm in the same position. I want to change a JB in an LTD H-500, mahogany body, maple top, tuned in C, for something with also strong mids like JB but tighter lows, and better cleans. I also thought at Abomb, but it may not be tight enough for mahogany and C tuning. So I thought at Painkiller.
You can find a great sounding Nailbomb here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDLXQ60_oI, but mind you that that's a neck through alder wings guitar, so very bright, but look how dark it sounds. This guy has also a lot of samples with Painkiller on Tonefinder which sound excelent.

[BigB]

The Nailbomb is NOTHING like a JB

Well, they are both mid/hot humbuckers... but that about all they have in common, indeed.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I also thought at Abomb, but it may not be tight enough for mahogany and C tuning. So I thought at Painkiller.
You can find a great sounding Nailbomb here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVDLXQ60_oI, but mind you that that's a neck through alder wings guitar, so very bright, but look how dark it sounds.

The last thing you can accuse a Nailbomb of being is lacking in tightness!

The clip you posted does have a very 'Nailbomb' feel to it because it's tight and very aggressive sounding, which is exactly my point. While the Nailbomb is very 90's Metal with a very aggressive edge to it, the JB and Holydiver are smooth and fluid while still being tight enough for most applications. The Holydiver also responds well to an overdrive pedal. If your guitar is a dark sounding mahogany instrument in a low tuning and you like your tone to have a really raw edge to it, the A-Bomb could be ideal but as I real JB alternative (smooth and fluid) you need to look at Holydiver or maybe Miracle Man.