Pinch harmonics

[MDV]

That "it's all about technique" is so BS.

Been also thinking about what the hell happened, since when I first discovered pinch harmonics at late 80's, I had no problem getting them out whenever I wanted what so ever.
And back then I had way more cr@ppy equipment, then these days.

Now I have several decent amps (Transistor and tube) and guitars with BKP pickups (one of the guitars I have used since late 80's) and find it hard to get decent PH's out.
And I don't think that I've mysteriously lost my "technique" during these years.

Originally that guitar that I've had all these years, had Duncan JB in bridge.
At some point I changed it to Dimebucker, and it was horrible.
Then I ordered Miracle Man and the sound was amazing.
Still, the pinch harmonics were almost impossible.

Few days ago I tried my newly acquired Epiphone Les Paul custom, with stock pickups with my gear and strangely PH's flew out like back in the days.

I am going to upgrade that Epi's pickups to BKP, like my other guitars and see what happens after that.

Okey dokey.

No.

As tony says, pinch harmonics are something you do to strings, not something that gear does for you. Its pure technique, everything else is window dressing and colour.

[MDV]

It is, though. I can do pinch harmonics (and before anyone says, yes, that includes on an unplugged electric guitar). I can do them way better (or at all, in certain instances) with appropriate gear/settings. I don't care how good your technique is... you're not getting zakk-style squealies through a blackface fender twin reverb set to 1. Which means it's not all technique.

The same logic apples to palm mutes.

The core of it is technique. You can do it just fine on pafs into a blackface, but A: thats not going to sound like an 81 into a 5150 and B: thats a reductio ad absurdum. Of course the gear has an influence on how it sounds, but it has, as you say, no influence on whether they can be done.

[JimmyMoorby]

Increasing brightness and treble will help.  I'm good at pinching the harmonics but I cant do the vibrato 'thing' like Zakk Wylde or John Sykes sadly:(
Adding gain will help too

[Kiichi]

Adding gain will help too

And gain will help mainly because it adds compression, cause pinched harmonics are always lower level than normal notes.
That it also saturates more (and adds some overtones) also greatly helps the sound of these harmonics.

Which makes me thing adding the right kind of compression will go a looong way getting pinched harminics outa a Blackface.

[MDV]

Adding gain will help too

And gain will help mainly because it adds compression, cause pinched harmonics are always lower level than normal notes.
That it also saturates more (and adds some overtones) also greatly helps the sound of these harmonics.

Which makes me thing adding the right kind of compression will go a looong way getting pinched harminics outa a Blackface.

Correct on all counts.

[dave_mc]

It is, though. I can do pinch harmonics (and before anyone says, yes, that includes on an unplugged electric guitar). I can do them way better (or at all, in certain instances) with appropriate gear/settings. I don't care how good your technique is... you're not getting zakk-style squealies through a blackface fender twin reverb set to 1. Which means it's not all technique.

The pinch harmonic in itself is exactly the same regardless of whether it is played through a twin reverb or an uberschall. So the actual pinch harmonic is purely technique. The way it sounds after it has been amplified has other factors.

i think we're possibly talking at cross purposes. :lol: I don't disagree with anything you've said there. It just gets annoying (on other forums) where some poor kid is tearing his hair out about why his pinches aren't sounding right, and a whole bunch of smart-alecs post the "it's all technique" spiel and then you find out he's using his neck pickup with the guitar tone knob rolled down to 0 through a totally inappropriate amp or amp setting.

that's all i mean. If something, other than technique, affects how pinches sound (the "end result", in other words), then by definition they're not "all technique". can you "do" pinches into a totally clean amp? yep. will they sound like pinches? not really (most of the time).

To me, "sounding like pinches" and "being able to do pinches" are in effect the same thing. To argue they're not is verging on pedantry, if you ask me. At worst, they're two sides of the same coin.

EDIT: to go further along the technique train of thought... good vibrato makes pinches really jump out. I'd go so far as to say that (a certain type of) pinches don't really sound "right" without good vibrato. Is that pinch harmonic technique or vibrato technique?  :? :lol:

However if things being about technique is bullshiteeee where are the pedals and pickups that will make my sweep picking not sound like cr@p?

I never said technique was BS- i said, "It's all technique" is BS. A lot of it is technique, for sure. I'm certainly not suggesting not to practise, lol, if anything I'm of the opposite school. But i could certainly give you amp settings that make sweep picking harder (way too much gain where everything turns to mush, say), and I also find sweep picking easier on guitars with a flatter fretboard radius. I'm probably not the best person to talk about sweep picking, because I do kinda suck at it, but the same thing applies to pinches (and I think i can do pinches ok).

The same logic apples to palm mutes.

The core of it is technique. You can do it just fine on pafs into a blackface, but A: thats not going to sound like an 81 into a 5150 and B: thats a reductio ad absurdum. Of course the gear has an influence on how it sounds, but it has, as you say, no influence on whether they can be done.

yep, i agree 100%.

but "the core" is not "all". I'm always very careful about superlatives, they can give people the wrong end of the stick if you're not careful.

EDIT: I don't think it is reductio ad absurdum. If it's readily available kit that people might be using, it's not reductio ad absurdum. If i said I can't get pinches on a shoebox strung with elastic bands, that'd be reductio ad absurdum, lol.

EDIT #2: (this is to both of you) I'm really not trying to start a fight here- I have the greatest of respect for both of your posts, and this is the only time I can remember disagreeing with anything I've seen either of you write. And disagreeing is too strong a word, it's more that we're arguing at cross purposes, as I originally said. I'm just worried by the "it's all technique" claims, when the threadstarter already made clear that his technique is fine. that's all. that's the crux of the matter, IMO.

[DelArco]

Amen to that dave_mc.  :P

My point on technique was exactly that, but you explained it much better.
So now, when everyone hopefully understands this, you may want to find an explanation to this:

When I use same amps, with settings unchanged and switch only guitars, why do I get the easiest pinch harmonics from guitar with stock pickups?

And this was Epiphone Les Paul Custom.

Other guitars have Miracle man (soloist) and Warpig (Gibson Les Paul Studio).

[dave_mc]

^ BKPs are normally pretty open-sounding; i suspect the epiphone pickups are more compressed. that might be it (though don't quote me on it, it could be something else entirely, or a combination of things).

have you tried your bkps with a boost pedal (e.g. something tubescreamery)? that might help the pinches to jump out. assuming you're using a tube amp.

[GuitarIv]

^ BKPs are normally pretty open-sounding; i suspect the epiphone pickups are more compressed. that might be it (though don't quote me on it, it could be something else entirely, or a combination of things).

have you tried your bkps with a boost pedal (e.g. something tubescreamery)? that might help the pinches to jump out. assuming you're using a tube amp.

Amen. My Tubescreamer has become an essential part of my rig, and right now it consists of an Orange Micro Terror going through a 4*12 with the Screamer and a Noisesuppressor in front of it. Gives my Holydiver more "balls" and I don't have any problems with pinches. In fact I played a Mates Alnico Warpig loaded LTD (Mahogany Body, Maple Cap, Maple Neck and Rosewood Fretboard) yesterday through that setup and it had everything, punch, screaming squeals and hell lot of output.

p.s.: I need Warpigs now that I tried them out :P

[dave_mc]

Amen. My Tubescreamer has become an essential part of my rig,

yeah same here. well, my cheapo joyo clone :lol:

[herbychimp]

I thought I would tip-toe into the debate here with a memory of my own. I can't remember  where I heard or read this but I would reference the legendary ability of the Rev Billy G and his pinch-harmonic extracting technique. On 'Cheap sunglasses' he allegedly used a strat on an inbetween setting to get those subdued squeaks and squeals in the solo... now, unless they were super-overwound then this is all a question of fingers and picks (or pesos in Billy's case) Having seen a recent youtube clip his tech said he uses 8 guage strings for that phat tone!


Amen to Billy's technique.

[dave_mc]

I'm certainly not saying technique doesn't play a part- it does, a massive part. I'm just saying that certain gear and/or settings help them to really jump out- once you have the technique down. And if you do have the technique down and find them more difficult with certain gear, it's probably not that you've inexplicably lost the ability to do pinch harmonics solely with that gear, lol.

[JimmyMoorby]

I'm certainly not saying technique doesn't play a part- it does, a massive part. I'm just saying that certain gear and/or settings help them to really jump out- once you have the technique down. And if you do have the technique down and find them more difficult with certain gear, it's probably not that you've inexplicably lost the ability to do pinch harmonics solely with that gear, lol.

I dont see how any one could disagree wih that!  Theres a reason guitarists gravitate to the gear they do.  George Lynch is the only guitarist who ive heard be completely honest in that he says something similar to if he doesnt have the exact right tone he hates his playing.  I think when he says that he means a shitee loadof gain and reverb/delay.  He is a God though regardless of if he relies on his gear though.

[dave_mc]

:)

Yeah george lynch is a badass

[Roobubba]

Sorry Dave, I'm going to have to chime in, too...

You're absolutely right about the cross-purposes nature of this conversation! Everyone seems to agree that 'being able to do pinch harmonics' and 'making great-sounding pinch harmonics' are at least related, but I would argue that the distinction between them is not pedantry for the following reason:

If you can't do pinch harmonics, there's 0% chance of them sounding great.

It's important to learn the technique to be able to do them on an unplugged guitar (or nylon-stringed ukulele, or elastic bands on a shoe box...). You can hear them in these cases.

The need for the right gear - however we choose to define that - is in the second stage and has incredibly little to do with the first! The only thing that the 'right' gear will bring which cannot be compensated for when trying PH unplugged is the sustain through feedback.

When someone posts 'why can't I get pinch harmonics to work?' it's very difficult to ascertain their problem, or indeed their real question. The best place to start is usually with technique, rather than suggesting they go out to buy a new guitar and amp!

Roo

PS I am a known pedant (had to be careful there) so take my words with the appropriately sized pinch (!) of salt.