Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?

[BMA]

Hi folks

I have 2 all-mahogany LP-style guitars (Cort) that have some cheap Mighty Mite Pickups that I would like to replace, P90s for one and some PAF-type humbuckers for the other. Both guitars sound full and warm and could need a little more brightness. The resonant peak of both is between 400 and 800Hz when playing bar chords (straight into a DI, no amp). After listening to a lot of demos I've pretty much narrowed it down to SM's vs TM's and MQ's vs Manhattans (but that doesn't mean that I'm not open to other suggestions). I'd appreciate it a lot if you could share some of your experiences.
I'm playing mostly blues, clean with just some tube break-up or a tiny bit of overdrive, i like a thick/fat yet articulate, warm, round sound with a sweet, smooth top-end. My amp is a hand wired Princeton reverb clone with 12" speaker. I'm mostly playing with the neck PU.

 
-Do you think that the mules are bright enough for an all mahogany guitar? I'm not looking for a bright guitar but it should be able to cut trough a mix.

-Does anyone know in which frequency range the "dip" of the SM is?

-I was also thinking about a mule for the bridge and a SM for the neck, but BKP support told my that they don't advise mixing A2 and A4. Does anyone have experience with this combination?

-I also asked them about about SM's with A4, but they replied that they do not offer such a thing, although I've read on here that some people have them. Did you swap the magnets yourself or how did you get those? and how do they compare to the A2 SM?

-How useful do you find the sound of these PUs when splitted? I'm not yet sure whether I'll go for a 50s wiring or 4-conductor with push/pull for coils split.

-I'm quite sure that I'll be liking the MQ in the neck position, but it might actually be to bright for my taste in the bridge position - i tend to prefer some thing more mid-rangy in the bridge. How does the MQ  compare to an "average" P90 in terms of brightness?

-I've been thinking about a Manhattan for the bridge and a MQ for the neck, but A3/A4 sounds like a rather weird combination. Has anyone tried this or can predict how this would sound?

-One of the 2 guitars is much more resonant than the other - when played unplugged it almost sounds like there was some reverb. Would you rather put the humbuckers or the P90s in this one ?

Now that was a whole bunch of questions, I'd greatly appreciate any answers.

Kind regards,

Basil

[Twinfan]

Welcome!

I'll have a go at answering your questions:

-Do you think that the mules are bright enough for an all mahogany guitar? I'm not looking for a bright guitar but it should be able to cut trough a mix.

They will be bright enough, yes, with a strong-ish mid and upper mid range.

-Does anyone know in which frequency range the "dip" of the SM is?

Not a freaking clue!  I go by my ears for tone  ;)

-I was also thinking about a mule for the bridge and a SM for the neck, but BKP support told my that they don't advise mixing A2 and A4. Does anyone have experience with this combination?

I've not tried it personally, but I believe others have. AV and AIV is a more normal mix.

-I also asked them about about SM's with A4, but they replied that they do not offer such a thing, although I've read on here that some people have them. Did you swap the magnets yourself or how did you get those? and how do they compare to the A2 SM?

It used to be an option until a few years ago.  I had an AIV SM and it was clearer and more open than the AII version, but it lost some warmth and thickness.

-How useful do you find the sound of these PUs when splitted? I'm not yet sure whether I'll go for a 50s wiring or 4-conductor with push/pull for coils split.

I personally don't like split humbuckers as I find them too weak.  They're OK if you usually play metal and want to drastically cut your output for a clean tone.  PRS are now doing a trick with resistors to fatten up the splits a bit, you may want to look into that.

-I'm quite sure that I'll be liking the MQ in the neck position, but it might actually be to bright for my taste in the bridge position - i tend to prefer some thing more mid-rangy in the bridge. How does the MQ  compare to an "average" P90 in terms of brightness?

The MQ is a fat and thick beast, I'd say slightly fatter and hotter than a "normal" P90.

-I've been thinking about a Manhattan for the bridge and a MQ for the neck, but A3/A4 sounds like a rather weird combination. Has anyone tried this or can predict how this would sound?

I think that would be very, very odd - especially as the MQ is hotter.  I'd stick with matched sets.

-One of the 2 guitars is much more resonant than the other - when played unplugged it almost sounds like there was some reverb. Would you rather put the humbuckers or the P90s in this one ?

I'd use that guitar for cleaner tones, so I'd fit whichever pickups you're likely to play with less gain/dirt.

Hope that helps!

[BMA]

Thanks a lot for your answers, it sure does help.
Pity they don't make the SM A4 anymore, from what your saying i think i would have liked it in the neck with a mule in the bridge, since the neck is already very warm and fat sounding.
As for the coil-spliingt, I haven't played many guitars with that option so my experience is somewhat limited, but on those two guitars i have to say i like it. On the one that has high output PUs the splitted neck is my favorite sound (I just don't like high outputs), and on the other which has some cheap vintage-type PUs the frequency response doesn't change much but the sound gets more percussive, snappy, can be useful depending on the context. But I'll definitely check out that PRS wiring.
For mixing the Manhattan and the MQ, its probably true thats a bad idea, but the Manhattan bridge has 7,5k and the MQ neck has 6,9k, so in terms of output it should work. But I've never seen a guitar with an A3/A4 combination and the reason is probably just that its not very good sounding so I'll forget about it.

[Twinfan]

You can't go by DC reading alone - the magnets are different, and possibly even the wire used - so I wouldn't assume anything.  If in doubt, get in touch with the BKP team :)

[BigB]

Thanks a lot for your answers, it sure does help.
Pity they don't make the SM A4 anymore, from what your saying i think i would have liked it in the neck with a mule in the bridge, since the neck is already very warm and fat sounding.

I do have a Mule neck on a rather dark SG and it JustWork(tm) for these bluesy tones. Warm & fat indeed, but still clear and fluid, and very vocal.  
 

As for the coil-spliingt

Coil splitting usually don't work fine with low-outputs 'buckers - the signal is just way too weak. Works better with higher output 'buckers where each coil is already as hot a fender SC.  

Also I always found the serie/parallel switch to be a better option than coil split - retains the humbucking effect while still operating like a SC - or, more exactly, like the middle position between 2 SC but without the phase cancellation induced "quack" effect and output loss.

[BMA]

I do have a Mule neck on a rather dark SG and it JustWork(tm) for these bluesy tones. Warm & fat indeed, but still clear and fluid, and very vocal.  

Sounds like I'm sold.  :D Thanks
How do you calculate the output of a split humbucker? Is it just the half of normal DC reading? I find the split sound of the 8,2k stock humbucker is quite useful, even if it doesn't sound like a strat. Although there is indeed a big drop in the output which needs to be compensated on the amp, so its not for switching in the middle of a song. But then again its mainly useful because the sound is more articulate and I'm quite sure that the BKP wont lack this quality even in humbucking mode.
I've never really liked the serial wiring, to me it sounds like the "worst of both worlds". And that "quack" on positions 2 and 4 is about the only thing I really like on strats. To each its own.
So it will be either split or 50s wiring.

Btw do you ever roll off the tone when using the neck pick up? Because I'm thinking about putting no tone pot for the neck since 4 pots would require serious modification to the guitar and i don't like master tones and i want individual volume knobs.

[Mr. Air]

I do have a Mule neck on a rather dark SG and it JustWork(tm) for these bluesy tones. Warm & fat indeed, but still clear and fluid, and very vocal. 

Sounds like I'm sold.  :D Thanks
How do you calculate the output of a split humbucker? Is it just the half of normal DC reading? I find the split sound of the 8,2k stock humbucker is quite useful, even if it doesn't sound like a strat. Although there is indeed a big drop in the output which needs to be compensated on the amp, so its not for switching in the middle of a song. But then again its mainly useful because the sound is more articulate and I'm quite sure that the BKP wont lack this quality even in humbucking mode.
I've never really liked the serial wiring, to me it sounds like the "worst of both worlds". And that "quack" on positions 2 and 4 is about the only thing I really like on strats. To each its own.
So it will be either split or 50s wiring.

I got A SM bridge in my strat and a switch to split it and it works well. There's not much volume drop and it gives a stratish sound which might be halped by the fact that the pup is in a strat 

[BMA]

Yeah a strat definitely helps to make a PU sound stratish ;-)
But like I said im not a strat fan (unless its in the hands of Mark Knopfler) but if the sound is useful i'll probably go for it - I just like to have some options.

[ericsabbath]

mules are the most amazing humbuckers I ever played
I don't know how they work in other woods, like alder or basswood, but I can't imagine any mahogany bodied guitar not sounding absolutely awesome with that set

[Twinfan]

I had a set of Mules in an LP and I didn't like them at all - they just sounded really bright and thin.  There was clearly some strange interaction of frequencies going on in that guitar as every one else seems to rave about them.

I personally don't find them full enough sounding, unlike the Stormy Mondays which I love!

[Philly Q]

I personally don't find them full enough sounding, unlike the Stormy Mondays which I love!

I didn't find the SM (neck) full enough sounding (in a Flying V).  I think the AII softens the tone, takes any harshness out of it, but it was nowhere near a thick/fat sound (IMO).

I've always assumed the Mules would sound that bit fatter, but still haven't tried 'em.

Personally I'd definitely rather have something a bit hotter than SMs in an all-mahogany guitar, especially in the bridge position, but for someone who plays mostly clean blues they may be just the ticket.

[BMA]

Personally I'd definitely rather have something a bit hotter than SMs in an all-mahogany guitar, especially in the bridge position, but for someone who plays mostly clean blues they may be just the ticket.

I don't think hot winding and all-mahhogany is a good combination. A hotter PU means less treble, more mids and more compression, you are likely to end up a bit on the dull and lifeless side. Out of the two guitars, the one that has the vintage output PUs sounds way better, even with high gain. Clearer, more open and a lot more depth. Imho hot PUs only make sense if you want that more mid-focused ton, but i bet a lot of players who use high output PUs would prefer somethng with fewer windings, they just never used them. People tend to think high output is for high gain, low output is for clean, but thats just not true.

I had a set of Mules in an LP and I didn't like them at all - they just sounded really bright and thin.  There was clearly some strange interaction of frequencies going on in that guitar as every one else seems to rave about them.

I personally don't find them full enough sounding, unlike the Stormy Mondays which I love!

What year was that LP from? Gibson sticks to using only south-american mahogany, and the fact that these specimen have been almost eliminated means that they have to use even lower quality. The "good" mahogany (mostly swietenia macrophylla) on the old gibson came from the coastal regions where the climate is ideal, resulting in a light-weight wood with homogeneous structure which is what gives mahogany its warmth and fullness. But today you simply wont find any mahogany in the coastal areas anymore so today's honduras mahogany comes from higher altitude regions with a different climate, resulting in denser, less homogeneous wood which sounds thinner and brighter. Beside the ecological aspect, thats the main reason i prefer kaya over "real" mahogany. Ever noticed how lots of newer LPs, despite being chambered, aren't really lighter than the older ones? That's the reason. And that of course has its influence on tone.

[Philly Q]

I don't think hot winding and all-mahhogany is a good combination. A hotter PU means less treble, more mids and more compression, you are likely to end up a bit on the dull and lifeless side.

I only said a bit hotter. 

I'm no fan of hot pickups either, I was thinking more (for my own taste) of something like a Riff Raff bridge and Mule neck.  So still basically vintage, but just that little bit more "rock" than the Stormy Mondays.  Low output AII pickups are too polite for me, except perhaps in a semi.

[BMA]

Ok i get what you mean, would probably be a nice combination, but according to BKP tech support the mule has a sweeter edge and I'm not a big fan of A5 so I think I'll like the mule better.

[Twinfan]

Mine was a '96 Standard.