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Author Topic: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?  (Read 9247 times)

BMA

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #15 on: October 26, 2012, 06:12:22 PM »
so its not a chambered model but still has the "swiss-cheese holes". What PUs did you end up with in there?

Telerocker

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #16 on: October 26, 2012, 06:53:25 PM »
I've got Mules in a all mahogany bolt-on Saint Blues. Superb set, very balanced, very vocal. Great for jazzy stuff, blues, bluesrock, rock and hardrock.
Mules, VHII, Crawler, MM's, IT's, BG50's.

ericsabbath

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #17 on: October 26, 2012, 10:22:27 PM »
gibson uses whatever they find
they do use khaya and other african mahogany species
they even used cedro rosa (spanish cedar) back in the 50's
most of the modern gibsons I've played definitely felt like honduras, but my '73 custom sounds quite different from all of them
I've had other guitars with brazilian mahogany (same as honduras), and even the 70's ones still clearly sounded like the others, despite of the age, which is not the case with my '73 custom, and that makes me think if mine isn't african mahog
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

ericsabbath

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #18 on: October 26, 2012, 10:25:01 PM »
I had a set of Mules in an LP and I didn't like them at all - they just sounded really bright and thin.  There was clearly some strange interaction of frequencies going on in that guitar as every one else seems to rave about them.

I personally don't find them full enough sounding, unlike the Stormy Mondays which I love!

height is everything
most low output models sound thin in my les pauls, unless I get them pretty close to the strings
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

BigB

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #19 on: October 26, 2012, 10:44:48 PM »
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I do have a Mule neck on a rather dark SG and it JustWork(tm) for these bluesy tones. Warm & fat indeed, but still clear and fluid, and very vocal.  
Sounds like I'm sold.  :D

That was not meant to sell you the Mule neck but if the above description talks to you then you should definitly consider it as an option.


How do you calculate the output of a split humbucker? Is it just the half of normal DC reading?

DC resistance doesn't equate directly to output. Output level is a factor of wire type, wire gauge, number of turns, magnet type, magnet size, construction (magnet placement wrt/ bobins and pole pieces) and probably yet another couple  thangs.

I'm not an electronic engineer but AFAIK on a perfectly balanced 'bucker, split coil operation should indeed yield something about half the normal (series) output - but halving the pups output level doesn't mean you have half the volume (SPL is log, not lin).

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I find the split sound of the 8,2k stock humbucker is quite useful, even if it doesn't sound like a strat.

The main difference between G and F pups is not HB vs SC - else a Wide Range (I mean a _true_ Wide Range) would sound like a PAF and a P90 would sound like a Strat or Tele pup -, it's about how the pup is built, physically. Fender SCs and the original Wide Range bucker use magnet pole pieces within the bobin, while Gibson's pups - P90 and 'buckers - use metal pole pieces and have the magnet(s) under the bobin. This alone makes a huge difference (I once played a P90s SG where the P90s had been rebuilt Fender-style so I can tell). Also, the bobin height and width makes a difference too, which is why a (true) Jazzmaster pup sounds somewhere between a Tele  / Strat pup and a P90 (and not that far from the hacked P90s on that SG).


But anyway:

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But then again its mainly useful because the sound is more articulate and I'm quite sure that the BKP wont lack this quality even in humbucking mode.

A bucker will be "in humbucking mode" whether serial or parallel. But yes, articulation, definition and note separation are part of the BKP signature, and their low-output 'buckers have truly splendid clean tones and dynamic. Strange as it might be, I often use my SG or Hofner (semi-hollow, RR set) to play early Dire Straits stuff - not that they sound anything like a strat, but the response and dynamic are better than what I get from my strat (MiJ / Texas Special pups), specially when finger-picking.

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I've never really liked the serial wiring, to me it sounds like the "worst of both worlds".

I have a 4-ways switch on my Tele and I beg to disagree.

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And that "quack" on positions 2 and 4 is about the only thing I really like on strats.

You won't get this from a 'bucker wire parallel - much of that quack comes from phase cancellation due to the distance between the coils.

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So it will be either split or 50s wiring.

You can have both FWIW. All my guitars - including the strat and tele - are wired gibson 50s way.

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Btw do you ever roll off the tone when using the neck pick up?

With 'buckers ? Nope. I don't even know why there's a tone pot here :mrgreen:

But since I have good pups (and 50s wiring) on my guitars, I do use the tone pot on the bridge pup sometimes (talking about 'buckers here), and my volume pot is now my best friend.

Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)

Philly Q

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #20 on: October 26, 2012, 10:50:30 PM »
so its not a chambered model but still has the "swiss-cheese holes". What PUs did you end up with in there?

I believe that Les Paul is long gone.  Mr Twinfan has made some subsequent purchases.  :P
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

Philly Q

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #21 on: October 26, 2012, 10:52:51 PM »
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Btw do you ever roll off the tone when using the neck pick up?

With 'buckers ? Nope. I don't even know why there's a tone pot here :mrgreen:

I do.  I love that neck pickup with tone on 0 sound!
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

BMA

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #22 on: October 27, 2012, 03:59:27 AM »
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Btw do you ever roll off the tone when using the neck pick up?

With 'buckers ? Nope. I don't even know why there's a tone pot here :mrgreen:

I do.  I love that neck pickup with tone on 0 sound!

I guess that meant to be a joke??

Anyway thanks everyone for your inputs, specially BigB for you detailed post. The mule was my favorite before i opened this thread, based on sound clip and description, i was just unsure whether it will be bright enough for an all-mahogany guitar, but you eliminated my doubts.  Btw there was no pun intended when i said i don't like serial wiring, its just that it never really did it for me. Both split and serial reproduces some of the characteristics of a traditional SC, but not all, and i just happens that i prefer those of a split humbucker over these of a serial wired one - at least on the guitars i tried.

@ Eric Hellstyle
My information about woods used by gibson comes from several luthiers as well as from an official gibson statement. There might be exceptions, although probably not a lot. But if you have a LP that differs from the rest, i doubt very much that this one is kaya. You just won't be able to feel - or probably even hear - a diefference between kaya and swietenia, even with a microscope its really hard to see the difference. It could be entandrophragma or, most likely, just a swietenia grown in a strange climate. This is an often overlooked factor, but it plays a huge role.

itamar101

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #23 on: October 27, 2012, 07:06:32 AM »
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Btw do you ever roll off the tone when using the neck pick up?

With 'buckers ? Nope. I don't even know why there's a tone pot here :mrgreen:

I do.  I love that neck pickup with tone on 0 sound!

I guess that meant to be a joke??

I don't think so :lol:
I quite like it too, for distroted single note leads. It has such a smooth and throaty sound :D

BMA

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #24 on: October 27, 2012, 07:42:14 AM »
Oh I see but you need quite some gain to get back some mids/treble from the overdriven tube then. Not my cup of tea, but we all got different tastes and thats what makes music interesting after all.

BigB

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #25 on: October 27, 2012, 09:55:58 AM »

Anyway thanks everyone for your inputs, specially BigB for you detailed post. The mule was my favorite before i opened this thread, based on sound clip and description, i was just unsure whether it will be bright enough for an all-mahogany guitar, but you eliminated my doubts.

Don't take me wrong, it makes for a quite warm tone. FWIW the RiffRaff neck has much more clarity and "single-coilishness", but then you loose most of the vocality.

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  Btw there was no pun intended when i said i don't like serial wiring, its just that it never really did it for me. Both split and serial reproduces some of the characteristics of a traditional SC,

I think you are confusing serial for parallel here. Serial wiring is the standard operation mode for a 'bucker.

Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)

Philly Q

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #26 on: October 27, 2012, 10:18:52 AM »
Quote
Btw do you ever roll off the tone when using the neck pick up?

With 'buckers ? Nope. I don't even know why there's a tone pot here :mrgreen:

I do.  I love that neck pickup with tone on 0 sound!

I guess that meant to be a joke??

I don't think so :lol:
I quite like it too, for distroted single note leads. It has such a smooth and throaty sound :D

itamar101 definitely has me sussed!  :lol:  It was not a joke, I really do love the neck pickup with the tone rolled right down (and the bridge pickup with the tone on 10!)

Getting back on topic, I would be very surprised if the Mule's not bright enough for a mahogany guitar.  If it's not, and you're not keen on the AV Riff Raffs, then you really are only left with Stormy Mondays (or PG Blues...)
BKPs I've Got:  RR, BKP-91, ITs, VHII, CS set, Emeralds
BKPs I Had:  RY+Abraxas, Crawlers, BD+SM

BMA

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #27 on: October 27, 2012, 10:39:42 AM »
I think you are confusing serial for parallel here. Serial wiring is the standard operation mode for a 'bucker.

Ooops, my bad.
And i definitely looking for a warm tone, like i already said, just not a dull one. And the vocal quality seems more appealing to me since I'll put P90s in the other one and I also have a tele, which is by far my favorite SC guitar.

So it's going to be MQs and Mules. Thanks everyone for sharing your experiences.

ericsabbath

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #28 on: October 27, 2012, 01:24:23 PM »
Quote
Btw do you ever roll off the tone when using the neck pick up?

With 'buckers ? Nope. I don't even know why there's a tone pot here :mrgreen:

I do.  I love that neck pickup with tone on 0 sound!

I guess that meant to be a joke??

Anyway thanks everyone for your inputs, specially BigB for you detailed post. The mule was my favorite before i opened this thread, based on sound clip and description, i was just unsure whether it will be bright enough for an all-mahogany guitar, but you eliminated my doubts.  Btw there was no pun intended when i said i don't like serial wiring, its just that it never really did it for me. Both split and serial reproduces some of the characteristics of a traditional SC, but not all, and i just happens that i prefer those of a split humbucker over these of a serial wired one - at least on the guitars i tried.

@ Eric Hellstyle
My information about woods used by gibson comes from several luthiers as well as from an official gibson statement. There might be exceptions, although probably not a lot. But if you have a LP that differs from the rest, i doubt very much that this one is kaya. You just won't be able to feel - or probably even hear - a diefference between kaya and swietenia, even with a microscope its really hard to see the difference. It could be entandrophragma or, most likely, just a swietenia grown in a strange climate. This is an often overlooked factor, but it plays a huge role.

yeah, read a lot of stuff from luthiers and gibson documents as well
most were probably from central america and mexico (and brazil on early 80's), but I've seen some 70's guitars with weird wood grain patterns that don't match any modern gibson and other real swietenia mahogany guitars
some luthiers claim they send 50's les paul wood samples for analysis and found woods from different sources, and some were african (and khaya is not the only african mahogany)
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

BigB

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Re: Blues PUs for all-mahogany guitar?
« Reply #29 on: October 27, 2012, 02:28:46 PM »
And i definitely looking for a warm tone, like i already said, just not a dull one.

A couple Q&D samples - please pardon the floppy and uninspired playing :oops:

Amp is mostly a variation on the blackface Deluxe Reverb thru a Marshall 1965 cab (4x10 celestion), recorded with a zoom H2 about 5 feets away from the cab / 5 feets from the ground. First sample is direct to amp, second with a Xotic EP booster, third with Xotic EP Booster and TS808 clone. The perceived sound in the room is a bit less bassy but I didn't want to postprocess anything.

http://sd-31734.dedibox.fr/samples/STE-018.mp3
http://sd-31734.dedibox.fr/samples/STE-019.mp3
http://sd-31734.dedibox.fr/samples/STE-020.mp3

HTH.
Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)