What would you do?

[Dmoney]

So It looks like I might have some kind of job offer and I'm struggling to figure out what to do.

At the moment, I don't find my job stimulating, I feel patronized by people here who essentially do the same job I used to do before arriving at this company, and I feel like since I left my old company 5 years ago I've actually been loosing knowledge rather than gaining it. This has been made more apparent when going for interviews recently. In fact it's been pretty humiliating at times as well as hugely frustrating.

So Option 1 is just stay where I am with no change. This place probably won't exist in 10 years, but that's a while right.

Option 2. Very few opportunities to progress actually exist here. It's either move into a managerial sort of role or become more technical. That said, those jobs are limited and it's rare that people leave those roles. One is becoming available. I could try and cram knowledge like nobodies business in the hope I may at least have a shot at the job... worst outcome being I end up not getting the job, and I go back to what I do now.

Option 3. Take a considerable pay cut to move to a new company, closer to home. Would get increased training but now idea how long it may take to get my pay back up to what it is now, now idea if I'll get on with people there, if I end up leaving how tough will it be to get a job back on my current pay if I have a big decrease in my pay on leaving this job and applying for another. Also, while at the moment I work for a pretty well known company with a very strong customer base, i'd be moving to a relatively new company with maybe less presence.

I guess the 4th option would be the same as plan 1, but to do more outside of work. start a band again etc. That is easier said than done though.

I have to make some kind of decision by tomorrow I think. It's something I'm struggling with. Anyone faced the same issue?

[TheyCallMeVolume]

Haven't faced something like this yet, hopefully I don't either, doesn't sound like too much fun.

I would try option 2 and fall back on option 1. It's silly not to make the effort and at least try to improve.

[juansolo]

Ah the golden handcuffs, I know them well.

Some times you've got to just take that chance. Especially if you're not happy where you are. I've done the same and took a significant cut in pay. It took me a couple of years to get it back up, and I ended up in the end on significantly more. However a few more years down the line and things change and I was no longer happy. This time I took a more extreme chance by quitting without a job to go to. But it coincided nicely with my mid-life crisis so I decided to take a year out anyhow. Couldn't be happier (though to be fair,  I'd planned for this scenario so I have it covered financially).

My advice, if you're not ahppy and can stand the cut in pay, go for it.

[Dmoney]

The thing with working here is everyone I work with is awesome. That's important and I feel like it's lucky to work in that environment. The negative aspects are that most of the challenging or interesting work is picked up by others, and on top of that, I find it really hard to retain information from training courses (for example) unless I leave them and use that information on a regular basis. I'm used to keep things ticking over while other people deal with more technical stuff. There is also a lot of useless processes and middle management in place which I find frustrating. I mean, given that there may be 11 people in on any one day, 3 of those will be the top managers, then another 2 will be shift managers. Usually there will be a maximum of 4 plain operation engineers on any one day.  The other 2 are 3rd line support engineers. So even in our small team 45% of the staff are managers or middle management.

At the moment, mainly due to being aware of how backwards i've gone, I've really lost motivation to learn. I don't think I'm valued as an engineer and my reaction to that rather than being 'I should prove my worth' is to just act in a way that I feel reflects peoples opinions. which isn't too good.

Moving might mean a 6K a year cut. which might mean moving out to somewhere else. I wouldn't be doing anything vastly different, which means even keeping my interest levels up might be hard. I dunno. I think a lot also depends on my general mood, which is usually less than positive.

some friends suggested just quitting and traveling around. I have a lot of friends in a lot of places. Moving overseas maybe. I'm not sure. Now I'm almost 30 I feel like I have this skillset that no longer interests me that much, but I'd probably have to rely on it to do anything drastic like the above.

[gwEm]

That is frustrating and I can picture your situation.

I think you should definitely change jobs. Of nothing else it will give new perspective. It's worth doing a bit of a knowledge brush up before interviews. I agree its easy to forget stuff. In this day and age it would take balls of steel to leave a job without having anything lined up though.

[gwEm]

One of my pet hates is a top heavy management structure...

[Alex]

You need to do something, so there's really only option 2 or 3 to go for.

Good luck!

[JJretroTONEGOD]

you should quit your job and be unemployed then decide what to do next

[MDV]

3. But dont be so pessimistic about it!

You're looking too much at the downsides on 3, imo.

I had a boring go-nowhere job as a technical advisor at sellafield. I say boring; not technicaly challenging enough. I'd nag my manager for more and harder work. It got to the point where people were giving me work from outside the department that was anything that needed much mathematical or scientific ability. Still bored.

So I left to do production.

That has various downsides, as it turns out (anticipated, by and large, but I thought I would take them in my stride, and I dont), so I started applying for jobs in science and industry again. I was fully prepared to start out on the ground again and work up somewhere. I dont have a PhD. I dont have real in depth knowledge of any cutting edge research area, and I've been working in music for 2 years. Didnt look good, but fine, whatever, I'll get in at the bottom on something, learn fast and work hard, it'll all be fine. I'm not that fussed about money, never have beem, and moving is alright, as its a small world and most people are alright; keeping old friends and making new ones are both easy things to do.

But, I just got accepted at a private consultancy firm, for the nuclear industry. The job is more interesting and broader in scope as well, and the company and activities they have on the go offer some seriously interesting prospects for future work, and the pay is better than I was on before as well.

Moral of the story: dont guess whats out there, go find out. I expected to be a lab tech or something, and that would have been fine, but a bit of persistence can get you much better than you expect. Have a look, get your CV out there, make enquiries. You sound like youre stable, and in relevant work, and thats the perfect position to do that from. Get hunting!

[Nadz1lla]

I'm kind of in a similar situation. I am actually being bullied at work by someone a bit up the chain from me. He's a patronising, psychological bully, which is the hardest thing to prove because I don't have any real physical evidence that he's doing it, and I think he knows it too. I only enjoy the company of one or two of the individuals I work with, and the job itself is rather specialist.

Added to which, our "company" decided a few years back (before I started there) to review everyone's pay grades. They gave the Orthotists (the people who prescribe the devices to the patients that I then have to build) the all-clear and kept their wage the same, despite the fact that they've off-loaded some of their work on to the technicians (which is what I am), but they cut Technician pay bands from band 5 (the national average for our job) to band 3! ( :? ) Despite the fact they had actually been given more work to do, and that's after the tech work-force had been slimmed down anyway over the years, giving the techs more to do in general between them.

Needless to say, all the middle management and the centre managers didn't get touched (in fact probably went up a notch on the pay scale).

The result is, even though I am "New Boy", I feel incredibly low due to the bullying and the amount of sheer dickery there is amongst the workforce, and I also feel incredibly undervalued when I go around and look at what other Techs all over the country (and abroad) are paid, PLUS some of those guys have it easy! A lot of them use automated machinery these days, they have scanners to mock up the image of the patient's feet / legs / whatever, have laser-cutting computers and auto-CAD / lathes and routers that basically shape everything up for them! Lazy much?
We make plaster casts of the limbs / feet / whatever, clean them up manually, rectify them manually, and hand-shape all the leg braces / insoles / built-up footwear and adaptations. It's a dying art in an age of technology, really.

My options are quite easy, in theory. I can simply transfer to another trust if I so wished, but that would mean moving out of our area, and I really don't have a stable financial background to help me out. I need to clear my debts before I can move anywhere, so I am stuck here for at least the next three years.

I have, however, identified a target for myself: My job is one of the most sought-after skills in Canada, and it would give me a really easy time of emigrating. I've never physically been to Canada, but I already love the place. All my friends who have been there say that the quality of life is so much better, and the people are fantastic.
...Add to that Devin Townsend comes from Canada and I'm on to a winner, haha!
So my dream is to take my skills there, ultimately.

So all things considered, out of the options Dmoney has, it would be hard for me to stay in the same place, but in the name of stability I would probably stay put unless the pro's massively outweighed the con's when considering the job move.

From what you've mentioned mate, it sounds to me that, in regards to career stability, you are probably better off where you are for now. As for your MENTAL stability, however, maybe not, heh. Feeling patronised and demotivated is one of the worst ruts to get stuck in. If you can handle the pay cut and the fact that the smaller company is in a rather tentative position, it might be worth going over to them just for the change and to get more knowledge from a different angle (depending on what you do, they may do things slightly differently, therefore broadening your skill-set?)

Better still, if you can somehow highlight and combat the negative aspects of your current job, maybe by bringing up the attitudes of others to a trusted person further up the line from you, you might find a new lease of life where you are? I don't have a reliable enough support structure where I am, so I do understand that sometimes it's just not a viable option, but something to think about if you hadn't already.

Whatever you decide mate, I sincerely wish you the best of luck. Times like these are always hard!  :(

[MDV]

Chin up, nadz. I'd advise you to have a word with this bully, and if he takes no heed, with his manager and/or HR. Bullying is taken very seriously in most professional environments, and rarely needs to have physical evidence; it almost never takes the form of beatings or the like, its almost always psychological.

He may not realise the distress it causes you, so speak to him in a gentlemanly and rational fashion. If he does and he doesnt care, look to whatever recourses you have at your disposal to deal with it.

Its not $%&#ing on in the least, and most people see it that way. I've seen people lose their jobs over it, and rightly so. Grown adults shouldnt act like that and expect to be employed.

[Nadz1lla]

Indeed, MDV! Thing is, someone had complained about him before (so he's done it to others) and actually the little "management crew" rallied around him and really put the poor victim off doing anything.

Another person went to HR and upon arriving at the meeting he'd arranged, found that this guy was already in there buttering up the lady who was supposed to be un-biased. He's got a really good way of becoming the "kindly but misunderstood old man" when it suits him and I've seen him do this on many occasions. For some reason he's got a whole bunch of important people wrapped around his little finger, so I feel like I have no option but to wait until he retires in a couple of years.

I already had a go at him a few weeks ago and since then he's backed off a bit, but it's never for very long. I am, however, going to see a counsellor about my situation soon. Hopefully with some kind of "record" about my own mental well-being I might have a stronger case to bring than the previous complaints had. He's a really snide, conniving little wretch and about the only person I've met in life that has made me feel like I want to inflict physical violence on them. It takes a really special kind of person to do that to a pacifist like me.  :lol:

He's a Sea Scout leader too, which makes me think he's got definite "power and control" issues. None of the technicians here think he's any good at his job, either. In a matter of a couple of weeks into my job I was already doing the cast work to a much higher quality than him, I actually think that is where all this negativity towards me has come from.

It's actually rather sad, really. :?

But yeah... I am exploring my options and playing it safe for now, I've kind of got a plan of action involving the counsellor. We'll see how it pans out.

[juansolo]

Despite the fact they had actually been given more work to do, and that's after the tech work-force had been slimmed down anyway over the years, giving the techs more to do in general between them.

This seems to be a trend in a lot of industries, certainly in IT (my area). It's another reason I wanted/got out.

[TheyCallMeVolume]

Damn Nad, that really sucks.

[JimmyMoorby]

Every job is different but it might be worth taking a look at the way YOU think about things.  I dont want to leave my job because it pays better than any thing else i could do and it is easonably secure as it stands unless I majorly $%&# up.  Dunno if this will help but this is how i cope with my job.......

1)  The thanks is in the pay cheque.  I could care less if any of my bosses give me a roasting OR give me a dog biscuit say how good a job ive done.  I'm offended if they unjsustly criticise me but I keep it inside confident in my own security and quickly move on.  If they praise me I dont really care.  I'll do the best I can and learn as much as I can and im secure in that fact.

2) Why do you have to enjoy work?  I $%&#ing hate it sometimes but what else am i supposed to do to buy my self ncie things (i.e expensive BKP's) and live a decent quality of life.  If people enjoy their job I sometimes wonder why theyve got so little in their lives they have to live trough their job.  I take pride in my job but it doesnt define me, I think thas the problem with most people they judge you bywhat you do!  Dont get me wrong I love some people who i work with but if they really matter to me/ you can see the outside work too.

3) I find it very easy to see the negatives in people.  Im not lucky in that I have a no bullshiteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee attitude.  I'll take criticism by the bucketload but I wont take personal attacks. I can take a bullshiteeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee criticism or bollocking if its unjust because I just think I know how good i am and think of that money going in the bank accoun but if any one gets personal that has NO place at work.  Of course bosses have winged at me and ive took it on the chin or politely put my side acoss but I remember one of my supervisors once called me an idiot  (Not in a jokey way and it wasnt a friend orsomeone I respected) in front of colleagues and other persons.  I told him there and then id knock his $%&#ing teeth out if he ever spoke to me like that again and I didnt care if he complained because firstly i didnt do any thing wrong, and secondly i think its hard to justify such terms in a proffesional environment.  Maybe threatening violence COULD have gone wrong but it didnt.  The sad little man had to back down and apologize.  I was well aware he regularly spoke to people like that all the time but not me, best thing was he was always overley nie to me after that!

4) In theory you can always walk out in a blaze of glory.  I remember our managment bullied us into working a day when we shouldnt have to.  One guy got up and said hed walk out right now if they made him.  They threatened him with disclipline and he told them to shove it up their arses!  He then went off for 6 monts with stress and claimed sick pay and the job encouraged hi to come back!  Of course thats a ballsy move and id never put my job on the line like that BUT he couldnt take it any more.  You need to KNOW you can always leave and even with a bang!  Tha guy who walked out is also one of my best mates outisde of work and is my best bud in the job......... unless he quits or gets the sack lol


5)  Make a conscious effort to not talk about negative work things outside of work.  Leave the shiteeeeeeeeeee in the workplace, ask your self is there any thing you can even do at home to help......and even if you can is it necessary?  Why should you do worry about it in your own personal time?  Are you relly that sad?  8)  I can say with my hand on my heart if any one rings me on my days off I always ask 'Are you paying me for this conversation?'  If they say no i hang up!

6) How do you fit in?  Are you the new boy and putting pressure on you self to be as good as the who have the knowledge and experience you dont?  Are you a lazy workshy guy who deserves it?  Are you Mr Average who gets the job done and even if he does a good job doesnt draw attention to himelf (ME)?  Strive to be average I say.  If youre shiteeeeeeeeeee then you deserve whats coming.  If you work hard you can burn yourself out and get no thanks, people can take advantage or you can be the hard working nice guy who succeeds which does happen but is rare.  If you want to succeed youve either got to be the best, 'know people', shag someone or be a major ass kisser.

7)  Count your self lucky you have a job maybe?  Thats down to you really.......you know how good/bad/necessary it is but there are a lot of people struggling out there!

8)  Find a way to cope with the bullies or w**ker bosses. I dont get bullied and never will but when people are rude or take the piss I've argued back, lauged at them, ignored them and when I knew i was onto a loser grit my teeth and sucked up a bit.  No harm in saying 'Morning boss' and amking em cups of tea or coffee!  If youre being bullied by people who are your equals then you really need to sort that out or go along with it and laugh.

9)  Looks at your skills and see if you an do better or you can better your self.  I'm trapped in what I do to be fair.


Hope this helps.  It you dont think it does feel free to let me know but I have a very strict, discliplined job and I do it and it works for me AND supposedly no one has a bad word to say about me.....  Sure people have said ive done stuff 'wrong' or theyd have done it differently but havent we all?  
Work is work.