Author Topic: Fernades Sustainer System in Bareknuckle Form?? (Read 11852 times)

Johnny Mac · « **on:** May 11, 2005, 08:45:51 PM »

The Fernades Sustainer System. Is it possible for you to incorporate that idea in your pickups Tim? :idea:

Tim · « **Reply #1 on:** May 11, 2005, 08:52:52 PM »

Not really as the design belongs to Fernandes-it works on the same principal as an Ebow I believe.

Kilby · « **Reply #2 on:** May 11, 2005, 09:00:57 PM »

It's very similar to the EBow though the 'control' board in the fernandes system is a little more complex.

It's easy enough to induce movememt in the strings, but you need to monitor what the strings are doing, especially if you want the 'harmonic' mode, which produces the interesting tones.

Kilby...

Ratrod · « **Reply #3 on:** May 11, 2005, 09:01:33 PM »

Doesn't Jackson have a sustainer system as well? It was some sort of neck pickup, I believe.

Johnny Mac · « **Reply #4 on:** May 11, 2005, 09:02:02 PM »

From what i can make out it sends some kind of electro magnectic pulse to vibrate the strings. Sounds a bit 'Back To The Future' I know but thats kind of how it read in their website. Lets say hypothetically I :idea: got the bits that do that out of one of their pickups and put it in a Warpig or Miracle Man. Hmm?

Kilby · « **Reply #5 on:** May 11, 2005, 09:48:42 PM »

In theory you can canabalise the sustainer system.

There are two systems available from fernandes (check their website)

The one commonly fitted to guitars has a humbucker like pickup which fits into the neck position (as used by Jackson).

One coil is the driver coil and the other is the pickup (so it's really a single coil pickup). Not only does this act as a single coil pickup but it's output is also fed to the logic/driver board and used to decide what signals are to be sent to the driver coil.

The other one appears to be the driver as a single coil in the neck position and a 'standard' humbucker that sits in the bridge position, and acts as both a pickup and the sensor for the logic.

I think signal being sent to the driver is simply an amplified version od what is received from the 'sensor' pickup. This means that you don't have to dampen the strings all the time when you are not playing anything.

Once a signal is received (say by hammering on or picking the string), the curcuit is triggered, and a 'feedback loop' is completed.

The harder you play the harder the driver moves the string, which will also account for the way reasionably closely matched the original volume of the note, and continues to swell.

In theory you could connect a pickup of your own choice in place of the standard one.

BUT:

1: you may have to have your replacement pickup quite closely matched to the fernandes original.

2: Additionally the method that they use to 'listen' to the strings may also adversely affect the pickup tone, as it may be processed by their electronics before it gets to your jack socket.

I would love to play with a genuine system, but I'm too poor to buy one simply for taking apart :(

Dimazio apparently produced one in the 90s.

BTW, It's easy to start the strings moving.

Where the movement of the strings withinn a magnetic field will produce an electrical current, the opposite is also true.

Feed a suitably modulated voltage into a pickup will cause movement in the strings.

The real issue (to me) is control of the signal being sent into the pickup, but I may be making it much more complicated than it really is.

If you buy one let me know what happens.

Kilby...

FELINEGUITARS · « **Reply #6 on:** May 11, 2005, 10:59:11 PM »

I believe the first company to have a major go at this were Sustainiac.
They had units in thge mid-late 80s
George Lynch used one on Back for the Attack in 1987-88

They used to supply hamer, Fernandes etc
Fernandes went on to develop their own - don't know if they just copied what they had.
Floyd Rose developed one for Kramer about 1989- was similar but a little different - looks like the one that Jackson used on the Phil Collen model too.

Can be fun but often of limited use in a musical context - except by certain players
I see that Vai and Van Halen have used them of late though and that Matt Bellamy (Muse) is bound to have one in one of his guitars
I will be only too happy to build them into any of my guitars- probably the Sustainiac one though - easier to instal and takes up less space

Do have a look here though for more info :http://www.sustainiac.com/

Kilby · « **Reply #7 on:** May 11, 2005, 11:25:28 PM »

Quote from: FELINEGUITARS

I believe the first company to have a major go at this were Sustainiac.
Fernandes went on to develop their own - don't know if they just copied what they had.

I believe (but I'm often mistaken) that fernandes took over the Sustainiac product (but I could be wrong).

There was also the infinate guitar as owned as Daniel Lanois (sic) which I beleive used mains voltages to 'excite the strings' (personally thats more exciting than I would wish to be).

I think it would be better just to install a 'normal' sustainer in the neck position and a Bare Knuckle in the bridge/centre positions, as for the most part it's purely an effect anyway ;)

The reason I have been looking into sustainiacs is for bass usage which I think it would be be much more useful than on regular guitars, though it may mean using multiple drivers due to the mass of the string (I almost said weight and would be incorrect 8) )

Also I'd be interested to see how a 12 string would react.

Kilby...

Ratrod · « **Reply #8 on:** May 12, 2005, 12:07:03 PM »

Mad scientists at work 8)

Kilby · « **Reply #9 on:** May 12, 2005, 05:15:36 PM »

Quote from: Ratrod

Mad scientists at work 8)

Nope just mad ;)

Kilby...

TwilightOdyssey · « **Reply #10 on:** May 12, 2005, 05:23:32 PM »

Lynch experimented with the Sustainiac system, but it was mostly used for infinite feedback, which occurs on two tracks on the Back For The Attack album, IIRC.

That trademark Ebow style slur of notes is more in the Zakk Wylde/Steve Vai cannon; you can't miss it when you hear it.

I've never heard of anyone putting a sustainer in anything BUT the neck position, and even Ebow recommends that you set your guitar for the neck pickup position when using it.

I have an Ebow Plus, that I love experimenting with, but have yet to record with!!

Kilby · « **Reply #11 on:** May 12, 2005, 05:54:10 PM »

Quote from: TwilightOdyssey

I've never heard of anyone putting a sustainer in anything BUT the neck position, and even Ebow recommends that you set your guitar for the neck pickup position when using it.

Anywhere other than the nech means that the sustainer cannot induce (thats a good word :) ) enough physical movement in the strings, and the same holds for the EBow.

I actualy did a bit of checking (well it's better than working) and realised that sustainiac still exist http://www.sustainiac.com/

I actually thought that fernandes had bought out sustainiac, and obviously I had not read the jackson literature properly.

It should also be possible to do something similar with piezo transducer.

Just as mechanical movement against the crystal produces a voltage, a voltage applied to the crystal produces movement.

Therefore it should be possible to induce movement in the string via the bridge.

Kilby...

PhilKing · « **Reply #12 on:** May 13, 2005, 07:17:18 AM »

I did this by wiring a furman piezo bridge wrong so the battery power was going to it :oops: My excuse is that I was trying to wire the battery bypass and put the jack in stereo to give the accoustic on one side and electric on the other. It gave infinate sustain but lots of noise too!

Tim · « **Reply #13 on:** May 13, 2005, 09:08:01 AM »

It's worse than that,he's dead Jim!

Ratrod · « **Reply #14 on:** May 13, 2005, 11:38:14 AM »

Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor, not an electrician!