Hot PAF for Les Paul Traditional

[nkay]

Hi guys, I have a 2011 Les Paul Traditional. At the time when I got it, I didn't like the 57 Classics in it, tonewise they seemed to be too muffled and too bright at the same time, and not enough output for what I was doing at the time (metal). So I replaced them with the tried and true Dimarzio Super Distortion bridge and PAF Pro in the neck.

Now I'm writing some more classic/hard rock stuff, and although these pickups are great for that, I'm looking for something with a bit more character, and less blasting output. In the BKP lineup, I'm considering the Mules, Riff Raff, and Black Dog.

I saw a comparison video with the Mules and the 57 Classics, and they seemed very close, although the BKP was more lively and organic in general. I saw another video that compared the Dimarzio 36th Anniversary PAFs with the Mules, and I quite liked the 36th Anniversaries in that comparison, they seemed to be the tone and output I was looking for. However, maybe the Mule's sound just as good with a bit of overdrive.

The Riff Raff seems a little too jangly and AC/DC-ish for me, so I've narrowed it down to the Black Dog as being something closer to what I'm looking for. There is not many videos of the Black Dog so it's hard for me to compare that to the 36th Anniversary. Does anyone have any experience in comparing those two pickups or what to expect from the Black Dog.

To give you an idea, the tone I'm really going for is early 70's Rush (think Working Man), and mid 70's UFO Michael Schenker (Lights Out, Rock Bottom, Can you Roll Her, Only you Can Rock Me etc...) I think those examples would have Gibson T-tops so whatever comes closest to that.

[darkbluemurder]

I would definitely include the VHII in your shortlist as being "the hot PAF" in the BKP line. The neck pickup has more vintage character to it than the Black Dog neck, even though the Black Dog neck is a great pickup in its own right. If it's the Black Dog bridge you will settle on I have seen this combined with the Mule neck on this forum. No personal experience with those pickups yet, though.

Cheers Stephan

[TheyCallMeVolume]

Like Stephan, I'm gonna say VHII could work very well here.

[dingleberry]

VHII neck would definitely do the trick, the Emerald bridge suits my needs for similar purposes as well

[nkay]

Yes, looks like I overlooked the VHII. I guess (and it's not I hard) that I always associate the named pickup with it's intended sound and not its abilities, and Van Halen's brown sound doesn't describe at all what I'm looking for so I never even thought about it. I'm not too worried about the neck pickup, it's more about the bridge. There's just something awesome about that tone of a Gibson t-top through a plexi marshall in the early 70's. I know it's the amp too, but the pickups really help.

[HTH AMPS]

Riff Raff is closest to T-Tops

[nkay]

Riff Raff is closest to T-Tops

That's what I thought at first, but from videos that I've heard of the Riff Raff, it doesn't sound as thick (but I'm comparing sounds of entire rigs, not just the pickups though...) I guess until you've tried them in your own guitar/rig, you'll never know. That's why I liked the sound of the Dimarzio 36th anniversaries, they seemed to have an extra bit of thickness and not so jangly. Maybe that's a Dimarzio characteristic in general.

[darrenw5094]

Abraxas for me. The Mule is too similar to the '57 for a hotter replacement. VHII would work too.

[Telerocker]

Abraxas-bridge and Mule-neck would be a great combo.

[nkay]

Maybe I shouldn't be using the word HOT to describe what I want, I would like to stick in the 8-10k range in terms of DC resistance. I'm just a little stuck between so many options, and the Dimarzio Super Distortion I have is pretty fine, just want to get a little less hot, more vintagy, but still having soon oompf and bite without being bright. Something with some thickness but still snarly. (My non-technical musical descriptions!)

You guys may be right in terms of Riff Raff bridge, Mule Neck, or Abraxas bridge/Mule Neck. For some reason though the clips I heard of the Riff Raff were missing some oompf. I just listened to a few Abraxas clips and it is nice too, more oompf there, although I can tell it's getting hotter and closer to the Super D area.

[Telerocker]

Thickness with some snarl (but not the RR) is a VHII. It's quite balanced: suffient bass, good mids, bright but not thrill topend. Feels hotter then the dc-resistance tells you. Not that far away from my Crawler outputwise. Really a good rockpickup, quite touchsensitive, a little dry compared to a Mule, outstandig solotones when you dig in. I have mine in an ash strat. It will sound bigger in a LP, I suppose.

[Marco78]

I have mine in an ash strat.

Van Halen tone???

[darkbluemurder]

Maybe I shouldn't be using the word HOT to describe what I want, I would like to stick in the 8-10k range in terms of DC resistance. I'm just a little stuck between so many options, and the Dimarzio Super Distortion I have is pretty fine, just want to get a little less hot, more vintagy, but still having soon oompf and bite without being bright. Something with some thickness but still snarly. (My non-technical musical descriptions!)

DC resistance does not tell you the whole story of how much output a pickup has. You have to take this into context with the magnet and the wire gauge used. The reason why the Crawler is not much hotter than the VHII inspite of its much higher DC resistance is that the Crawler is wound with a thinner wire (43 AWG) compared to the VHII (42 AWG, lower numbers = thicker wire). The DiMarzio SD has much more output than either but that is due to the ceramic magnet(s) used compared to the Alnico V in the Crawler and VHII.

From your tonal description in the quoted passage, VHII would be what you want.

You guys may be right in terms of Riff Raff bridge, Mule Neck, or Abraxas bridge/Mule Neck. For some reason though the clips I heard of the Riff Raff were missing some oompf. I just listened to a few Abraxas clips and it is nice too, more oompf there, although I can tell it's getting hotter and closer to the Super D area.

The Abraxas bridge is considerably lower in output than a Super D. I would say it sits right between a vintage PAF and a Super D - maybe leaning a tad more to the Super D side but it's not close to it. The Abraxas neck is a low output (= vintage level) pickup which is a bit brighter than e.g. the Crawler neck. I have not used the Abraxas neck and the VHII in the same guitar so I cannot give you a direct comparison but my feel is that the VHII neck has considerably more output than the Abraxas neck.

Cheers Stephan

[Telerocker]

I have mine in an ash strat.

Van Halen tone???

Yes, it's a real good old school rock/hardrockpickup that nails the VH-sound, depending on the amps used.

[Marco78]

Yes, it's a real good old school rock/hardrockpickup that nails the VH-sound, depending on the amps used.

;)