Amps you didn't get on with

[itamar101]

Just found another one. Couldn't be bothered to cart my amp to rehearsal so spent 3 hours playing through a single channel Orange AD30. Horrible, fuzzy sound - only 5 knobs so not much to play with but could get only a passable sound at best. No cut or punch.

On the other hand I put my Boss OD3 through it which I haven't used in years and it's reminded me what a great all-round o/d pedal this is. At least I was able to get some decent solo tones. Little life saver.

Wow... I can relate to this so easily, in fact I was just about to add the AD30 into this list.
Easily my least favourite Orange amp. I'll admit, I've only tried it at music store volumes, but it was mushy and lacked any presence and attack, even at very low gain. Tried it out in the the shop multiple times when trying out guitars and pedals hoping that it somewhat resembles my TH30... nope. Thank god I saved some money and bought the TH30, love that amp to bits.
I'll admit though, I even had the same experience using an OD pedal with the amp as you :D
Plugged a PRS Tremonti SE Custom and a Mooer Hustle Drive and then into the AD30 and I got tonnes of presence and tightness and even the some clarity that was lost in the mushiness. It suddenly sounding usable.

What a coincidence, huh? :D

Anyway, needless to say, I've got a prolonged NPD coming up that I haven't had time to post and a review too, because Mooer Hustle Drive is awesome, especially for it's price.
Also, the PRS Tremonti SE Custom has given be a bad case of GAS, because that guitar was awesome when I tried it. Easily better playability and looks than some guitars over 2 times the price. Huge surprise and one of the few guitars that I've immediately liked when I tried it.

Anyway, I'm going wildly off topic so I'll stop :D

[EffigyForgotten]

- Peavey 6505: Absolutely too noisy.

What are noise gates made for again? cr@p I can't remember.

[Dmoney]

To suck tone and cut off your sustain?
If I spend a lot on a amp I don't want to have to fork out more money on a noise gate just to kill the hiss from it. The JSX and XXX have some noise gate/coring circuit built into the amp which might be a nice addition to the 6505, but i don't like to run extra gear just for the sake of it.

I use plenty of gain but once I started using the nailbombs (and even other BKP's) and a touch less gain, I started being able to control my feedback even when really loud with just the guitar. Don't even have to touch the volume. I got my rig solid. Feedback when I want it without using a noise gate.

Also... I tried the NS2 input/loop sort of wiring and I thought it sucked. There was enough hiss out of the FX loop for it to cause problems with triggering the gate. Running something an NS2 or Decimator in front of the amp is a waste of time too if you want to cut noise, because most of the noise is generated by the preamp.

I'd only use a gate if i was playing in a small venue but needed to be so loud I lost the control I mention above, and unless I'm playing something staccato that needs to stop dead and I might struggle otherwise, I'd leave it switched off.

I don't believe in running to the noise gate to solve problems elsewhere in my setup. I've used one a lot in the past and now I don't need to and I prefer not to. I also don't believe gates should be there to back up amps with poor component and layout choices.

But... each to their own.

[Philly Q]

^

I'm always hesitant commenting on amp threads, but it seems to me you should never need to use a noise gate with any particular amp.

I get the same thought when people say "stick an EQ pedal in front of it".  :?

[TheyCallMeVolume]

+1, if an amp works the way it should the only time you should absolutely need a noise gate is when you bring OD or boost pedals of some sort into the mix.

[dave_mc]

I'm not sure "any noise" means an amp is bad. I haven't tried any (good) high gain amps at high gain settings which didn't have some noise, and if a noise gate helps, that's awesome. That being said... I also agree with what dmoney is saying, there's a difference between running a noise gate to cut unavoidable noise and/or tighten up your playing slighty and running a noise gate to compensate for dodgy amp design or cheaping out on components. There's definitely a point where it gets excessive, and I agree with solving problems at source rather than using band-aids if at all possible.

that being said my laney gh50L probably qualifies as noisy, yet i still like it :lol: But i can sorta get round it with appropriate settings. ^ I'd also say that using a boost pedal but lowering your amp's gain probably decreases noise, not increases it. that's been my experience, anyway (that's one of the ways i get round it on the laney, i just turn the gain down and hit it with a boost EDIT: two boosts if necessary \m/ :twisted: \m/ ).

[Dmoney]

I'm not sure "any noise" means an amp is bad. I haven't tried any (good) high gain amps at high gain settings which didn't have some noise, and if a noise gate helps, that's awesome. That being said... I also agree with what dmoney is saying, there's a difference between running a noise gate to cut unavoidable noise and/or tighten up your playing slighty and running a noise gate to compensate for dodgy amp design or cheaping out on components. There's definitely a point where it gets excessive, and I agree with solving problems at source rather than using band-aids if at all possible.

that being said my laney gh50L probably qualifies as noisy, yet i still like it :lol: But i can sorta get round it with appropriate settings. ^ I'd also say that using a boost pedal but lowering your amp's gain probably decreases noise, not increases it. that's been my experience, anyway (that's one of the ways i get round it on the laney, i just turn the gain down and hit it with a boost EDIT: two boosts if necessary \m/ :twisted: \m/ ).

I'll accept all high gain amps have some hiss and I don't mind that in small doses. My Soldano's (legitimate and otherwise) have incredibly low noise floors for a number of reasons but all by design. The Laney (as I recall) may well have a lower noise level than the 5150 also.

The thing with the 5150 is that the preamp valves are mounted on a vertical board under a flap, inside the back of the chassis. First off that means the guitar signal has to get from the front to the back across unshielded PCB traces and a ribbon cable. That increases the risk of RF problems and noise being picked up along the way to be amplified at the first stage. This part of the amp is really sensitive. Peavey put in some capacitors to bleed off high frequency way outside the hearing range to prevent RF interference but they also use a lot of series resistance. When using the high gain input you end up with 79Kohms into the first stage. Series resistance in the signal path adds noise no matter where it is and a source is usually from pots or using voltage divider with large resistances to attenuate the signal between stages. You can cut the 68K resistor on the input of the first stage down to 33K and maybe even less. This has a huge impact on the hiss. I know that because I've done it to a 5150 in the past.

Those resistors are all small 1/4watt's too, which makes them more prone to introducing noise from thermal factors (when they get hot). The valves will get hot... and because they are fixed in an enclosed space with all the preamp components around them they won't cool as easy as they would being outside the chassis. This in turn could possibly increase the noise in the preamp.


Now I know they aren't high gain amps... but Frank's JPF Amps are built with all these factors and more in mind. Short run from the input to V1 to reduce the chances of interference getting in early. Techniques to cut down series resistance and therefore noise throughout the whole design. Transformers placed apart to reduce noise being induced between them. Use of a toroidal power transformer which reduces chances of noise also. Twisted heater wires laid out neatly due to the valve placement on the chassis. Star/Node ground scheme with the signal ground to the chassis right by the input to reduce effects of ground loops when using other gear into the head... and all that is before you even get to what makes them sound the way they do.

As a high gain example, the Soldano amps are all laid out in a very similar way to the JPF's but in addition they use high spec 1watt rated low noise metal film resistors & conductive plastic pots (instead of carbon traces). I also like to use elevated filaments to reduce the chances of problems from 50 cycle hum from the heaters.

horses for courses. I'd still not really complain about using a 5150.

[richard]

Hang on!!!!! This is MY thread about amps you don't like. Go and argue about noise gates somewhere else. Don't know what the world's coming to........

[Toe-Knee]

I agree that if an amp needs and EQ or gate to function normally or sound good then it isn't worth the effort.

Here are a few amps that i didn't get on with
Every blackstar i've played S100,HT series etc
Peavey 5150 - far too noisy and fizzy
Orange Rockerverb - muddy and flabby sounding
Cornford mKII i think - I couldn't get a good tone out of this at all
Marshall DSL - muddy and flabby and too grainy sounding

[Roobubba]

I concede defeat!

Someone mentioned the Beatw@ts positively linked in the same sentence to any one or more of the following: tone, musicality, musicianship, quality, not being ####!!s who should have all been shot at birth, decent sound - and you CONCEDED DEFEAT?!?!?!

Have I taught you NOTHING, Philly?!

[Philly Q]

Sorry, Roo!

I had to look back to remember what I was conceding defeat about.... something to do with Voxes.  :lol:

I think I was acknowledging that Rory Gallagher, Brian May and Hank Marvin had achieved decent tones from Vox amps.  I wasn't really thinking about the Beatles part!

[Roobubba]

Sorry, Roo!

I had to look back to remember what I was conceding defeat about.... something to do with Voxes.  :lol:

I think I was acknowledging that Rory Gallagher, Brian May and Hank Marvin had achieved decent tones from Vox amps.  I wasn't really thinking about the Beatles part!

Better :)

[dave_mc]

(a) I'll accept all high gain amps have some hiss and I don't mind that in small doses. My Soldano's (legitimate and otherwise) have incredibly low noise floors for a number of reasons but all by design. The Laney (as I recall) may well have a lower noise level than the 5150 also.

(b) The thing with the 5150 is that the preamp valves are mounted on a vertical board under a flap, inside the back of the chassis. First off that means the guitar signal has to get from the front to the back across unshielded PCB traces and a ribbon cable. That increases the risk of RF problems and noise being picked up along the way to be amplified at the first stage. This part of the amp is really sensitive. Peavey put in some capacitors to bleed off high frequency way outside the hearing range to prevent RF interference but they also use a lot of series resistance. When using the high gain input you end up with 79Kohms into the first stage. Series resistance in the signal path adds noise no matter where it is and a source is usually from pots or using voltage divider with large resistances to attenuate the signal between stages. You can cut the 68K resistor on the input of the first stage down to 33K and maybe even less. This has a huge impact on the hiss. I know that because I've done it to a 5150 in the past.

Those resistors are all small 1/4watt's too, which makes them more prone to introducing noise from thermal factors (when they get hot). The valves will get hot... and because they are fixed in an enclosed space with all the preamp components around them they won't cool as easy as they would being outside the chassis. This in turn could possibly increase the noise in the preamp.


Now I know they aren't high gain amps... but Frank's JPF Amps are built with all these factors and more in mind. Short run from the input to V1 to reduce the chances of interference getting in early. Techniques to cut down series resistance and therefore noise throughout the whole design. Transformers placed apart to reduce noise being induced between them. Use of a toroidal power transformer which reduces chances of noise also. Twisted heater wires laid out neatly due to the valve placement on the chassis. Star/Node ground scheme with the signal ground to the chassis right by the input to reduce effects of ground loops when using other gear into the head... and all that is before you even get to what makes them sound the way they do.

As a high gain example, the Soldano amps are all laid out in a very similar way to the JPF's but in addition they use high spec 1watt rated low noise metal film resistors & conductive plastic pots (instead of carbon traces). I also like to use elevated filaments to reduce the chances of problems from 50 cycle hum from the heaters.

horses for courses. (c) I'd still not really complain about using a 5150.

(a) i honestly can't remember what the noise level was like on the 5150. I've tried them, just not for a while. :lol:

(b) yep, of course. You know way more about amp design than I do, I just know what the things sound like. :lol: From what little i understand of what you wrote there, we're in complete agreement :)

(c) same here :lol: I did like the ones I tried, even if they were a bit noisy.

Hang on!!!!! This is MY thread about amps you don't like. Go and argue about noise gates somewhere else. Don't know what the world's coming to........

:lol: sorry :oops:

i'm not sure whether the hot rod deluxe should qualify for me or not (i think tom mentioned it a while back). I like its cleans, but man its od channels are complete garbage, verging on "unusable".

[AndyR]

Hang on!!!!! This is MY thread about amps you don't like. Go and argue about noise gates somewhere else. Don't know what the world's coming to........

I don't get on with noise gates :D

(Actually that's not true - I use them when recording vocals to exclude the sounds of the missus going "do you have to make that noise?")

[JDC]

Speaking of 5150s, I've only tried one once and it was when I sucked at dialling in amps but there is a certain metal tone out of 5150s that some people have that I don't like, it's as if there is something weird going on in the attack of the low mids but then I'll hear other metal clips of 5150s where I don't hear it at all. Not sure if it is me hearing things or if some people suck at dialling tones/have different tone preferences to me.