Effects only

[Slartibartfarst42]

A number of months ago I finally took the bold decision to sell all of my high quality stompboxes and bought a multi-fx unit. I decided to go with the RP1000 thinking I'd use it mostly for effects and maybe some amp modelling. I like the way it's 'all-in-one' and that it takes up limited space, which is superb at a gig that's tight for space. It's not as good as having individual effects but in the real world, it's compact dimensions and limited cost means it's hard to beat. I've been less impressed with the amp models. The clean models aren't bad and are very usable but higher gain models are nowhere near as good as a real valve amp. As a result I now use no amp models at all so it really is just a multi-fx unit so I wondered if I could upgrade to something that had better effects. Of the effects I use, this is what I use and what I've found on the RP1000:

Compressor - Very poor compared to the MXR Super Comp I used to use. None of the models are that great quite frankly.

Distortion - The distortion units aren't great compared to the distortion of my own valve amp so I tend to just use the overdrives to tweak the sound of my own amp. The overdrives can actually be quite decent. The Screamer, 808, TS Mod, SD Overdrive and Redline are all decent enough, though I find the rest only average. Those overdrives mentioned are all usable but all could be better.

Chorus/FX - A few of the chorus effects are pretty good and it is possible to find a half decent Flanger and Phaser in there but the rest are forgettable compared to individual stompboxes.

Delay - There are some decent delays in there, though I tend to just stick to the 'Analog' model. Reasonably happy with the the delay effects on the RP1000, though some are certainly better than others.

Reverb - These work fine for what I need and I use a number of them.

Wah - Generally poor. The Clyde Wah is certainly the best of a bad bunch. That one is quite usable but not even remotely close to being as good as my old wah (Tremonti Wah).

EQ - Really useful and effective but I'd rather have something that was easier to use than a parametric EQ.

Noise Gate - Works to a degree but really not great at all. Certainly not a patch on my old ISP Decimator.

Despite its limitations, I've found enough in this to make me think that I want to stick with a multi-fx system but I want to upgrade to something that does what I want rather better. Basically, I'm looking for something that meets the following criteria:


1) Will connect to my valve amp so that I can locate some effects in front of my amp and some in the effects loop.

2) Covers all of the effects mentioned above at LEAST as well as the RP1000 and ideally, quite a bit better.

3) I am not remotely interested in amp models so if the unit comes with amp models, I need to be able to completely disconnect them.

4) I don't want it to suck tone.

TBH, the choices seem quite limited. The Nova system is too limited; the G-System is too expensive; Line 6 always seems too artificial and digital; the RP1000 isn't quite good enough in all the effects I'm interested in even though it's great as an all-round package; I don't recall anyone ever raving about the effects quality on the Vox or Zoom offerings and the Boss ME units seem a bit dated next to the GT-100. That leaves the GT-100. I wish there was more choice for really top drawer multi-fx at a reasonable price without the amp modeling but it seems it's an area of the market that isn't well represented. So, firstly I'm wondering if anyone has any experience of the effects qualities of any of these units and secondly, I wondered if there was anything else I hadn't thought of?

[dvorak]

Man that was not a great review of the RP1000 :D

I'm still using a Boss GT6 in my studio running the 4 cable method  (into a Mesa Dual rec) so I can split the signal in the chain. I think it works pretty good compared to my stompboxes in quite a few different ways. I imagine the GT100 would be a good step up even. The Wah is really good, one of my favorite fx on it, you can basically program it as you ever want/need. I don't use the compression or OD fx, so I can't comment on that. I'm using a normal boost pedal for that. Reverb is good, delay is pretty good (it doesn't have analogue delay or tape, maybe the gt100 has), all the modulation effects are good enough for me. I don't like the amp models so I'm basically only using it for effects (wah, echos and chorus/flanger).

At home I have only stompboxes going into an Egnater Tweaker 15w, and I don't really miss them in the studio. The GT6 does the job for me there.

I've also heard good things about the Line6 M13, check it out, it seems to really be what you are looking for. And it's gotten good reviews!

[Slartibartfarst42]

I probably sound more harsh on the RP1000 than I mean to be. It's a good unit and it does the job so I'm in no rush to change but now that I've decided I just need effects only, I thought I'd start to consider options that might suit my requirements a bit better. The GT-100 does sound really good. As for the M13, I am probably a bit put off by other Line 6 products I've tried and really haven't impressed me. The M13 might be better and in fairness, the awful amp modeling on those other Line 6 products probably significantly hindered my appreciation of the effects.

[Mr.Coneman]

Ahh man, that might not have been the greatest decision.

When I first wanted to get into the effects scene, I just went and bought a Line 6 PodXTLive, and it was a good kickstarter to learn what different effects did, but after playing around with, and hearing friends setups with analog pedals, I knew it had to go. Never going digital again. They are cool little toys to play around with, and they can help you find "your" sound, by knowing which types of effects to like, and to which degree, but I always think it's best that, once you know that, just buy analog!

[tekbow]

http://www.tcelectronic.com/nova-system/

+ expression pedal?

or

http://www.tcelectronic.com/g-system/

[BigB]

Given your review of the beast and it's cousins and what you're looking for, I'd seriously consider going back to good old pedals. As far as I'm concerned I prefer to have a limited (6 to 8 units max, tuner included) set of hi-quality, carefully chosen effects that work fine together and with my amp and guitar and don't use that much more floor space than say a Vox Tonelab. FWIW I deliberately choosed to a rather small-sized pedalboard so I really have to think about what goes in and what stays out ;)

[Slartibartfarst42]

Yes, I know what you're saying but I'm far from convinced that a multi-fx unit can't work. Obviously individual pedals are better but are they better by a big enough margin to warrant all of the extra expense? I seriously doubt it quite frankly. If it was just me listening then possibly but I'm needing a rig to use at home and at gigs and the reality is that at a gig (for me at least) the difference is unlikely to ever be noticed. Consider what I used to use compared to what I use now, even before getting a better multi-fx unit.

Overdrive

I used to use a Hardwire unit, which was very good and better than the multi-fx options but the multi-fx is OK and has the advantage that I can keep tweaking the settings and the type of overdrive used to suit the song without having to mess around with the controls on just one pedal every few songs. The sound was better on the Hardwire but the convenience and flexibility of a multi-fx is far superior and in a covers band like mine, I need that versatility. A different multi-fx may be better again or I could always add an individual overdrive to the multi-fx if I really needed to.

Distortion

I used to use a Hardwire Metal Distortion pedal into the clean channel for some songs and it was fantastic. In comparison the distortions on the Digitech are awful so I just add a bit more gain to an overdrive into the dirty channel and it's fine. TBH, if I was going to use a full distortion unit for my drive, I'd be tempted with the Nova System instead because that is analog. Again, the individual pedal is better but that was a £100 pedal and the multi-fx does a perfectly reasonable job the way I use it for a fraction of the price and far less space on a cramped stage.

Wah

The Wah on the RP1000 is OK. It's not even remotely close to as good as my old Tremonti Wah but again, I just don't see it as being worth all that extra cash (unless I used a Nova System, which doesn't have a Wah) when the vast majority of the audience can barely tell if you're playing the right chord or not!

Chorus/Delay

Again, I used to use Hardwire pedals but, although they're excellent, I frankly prefer the multi-fx here. I use delay especially quite a lot and I love the fact that I can use a different setting on each song if I want to, without any messing around. What's more, despite the Hardwire Delay being generally seen as excellent, the Delay and Chorus on the RP1000 are more than adequate and I'm perfectly happy with them.

Noise Gate

OK, the ISP Decimator I used to have was a LOT better but that was a very expensive pedal and I figure that if I can cope with the poor noise gate on the RP1000, I should be perfectly happy with whatever is on a better unit.

I do appreciate the argument for individual pedals and accept that they're better but for what I need and in the band I play in, multi-fx are simply a better option. I've simply got to a stage where I'll sacrifice ultimate tone for convenience. I want to get something better than the RP1000 for effects but I have no intention at all of going back to individual pedals.

[Toe-Knee]

TC G major. You can get these for about £100 on ebay. + a peak 2005 controller for £95 and you are set.

[TheyCallMeVolume]

I'd say save up and get the G-System. It'll be worth it in the end to get effects you like the sound of.

[Sancho]

Given your review of the beast and it's cousins and what you're looking for, I'd seriously consider going back to good old pedals. As far as I'm concerned I prefer to have a limited (6 to 8 units max, tuner included) set of hi-quality, carefully chosen effects that work fine together and with my amp and guitar and don't use that much more floor space than say a Vox Tonelab. FWIW I deliberately choosed to a rather small-sized pedalboard so I really have to think about what goes in and what stays out ;)

My thoughts exactly.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I'm sorry, but I really don't fancy going back to individual pedals. However, the idea of a G-Major and a midi foot controller sounds like a really good one to me. I've never looked at rack systems before or midi controllers so I know absolutely nothing about them but from what I've seen so far, such a set up would be rather like having a G-system anyway. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if I bought such a system would I be using the midi foot controller to change patches exactly as I would on a normal floor based multi-fx and would I be able to turn individual effects on and off within a patch like normal pedals, as i do with my RP1000?

[Toe-Knee]

I'm sorry, but I really don't fancy going back to individual pedals. However, the idea of a G-Major and a midi foot controller sounds like a really good one to me. I've never looked at rack systems before or midi controllers so I know absolutely nothing about them but from what I've seen so far, such a set up would be rather like having a G-system anyway. Now correct me if I'm wrong, but if I bought such a system would I be using the midi foot controller to change patches exactly as I would on a normal floor based multi-fx and would I be able to turn individual effects on and off within a patch like normal pedals, as i do with my RP1000?

Yes.

I currently have it set up so as i change patches it also changes the channel on my amp to the corresponding channel for the patch. I'm also looking into building a remote loop that can be switched by the other unused relay to bring an overdrive up in front of the amp on certain patches.

You can also set up your controller exactly the way you want too. Say the bottom row for patches/presets and another row for toggling effects like stomp boxes then anything else for bypass/tuner mute etc

[BigB]

the convenience and flexibility of a multi-fx is far superior and in a covers band like mine, I need that versatility.

Uhu, ok, that was the missing part.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I'm rapidly warming to the idea of a G-Major. Would you mind answering a few additional questions please?

1) Will I be able to control the channel switching on a Blackstar HT-60 from a midi board?

2) Will I be able to control the amp's boost function from the midi board for solos?

3) To scroll through patches and be able to turn individual stompboxes on and off within a patch, which midi foot controller would you suggest? I've looked at the  Peak 2005 website but I'm not sure which one I'd need. Alternatively, what other midi board would do the job? I really know nothing at all about them.

4) I assume it would be best to have some kind of protective case to house the G-Major in so where would I get something like that?

[Toe-Knee]

I'm rapidly warming to the idea of a G-Major. Would you mind answering a few additional questions please?

1) Will I be able to control the channel switching on a Blackstar HT-60 from a midi board?

2) Will I be able to control the amp's boost function from the midi board for solos?

3) To scroll through patches and be able to turn individual stompboxes on and off within a patch, which midi foot controller would you suggest? I've looked at the  Peak 2005 website but I'm not sure which one I'd need. Alternatively, what other midi board would do the job? I really know nothing at all about them.

4) I assume it would be best to have some kind of protective case to house the G-Major in so where would I get something like that?

1+2 the channel switching is controlled by the gmajor. It has a stereo jack on the back that you can connect using a Y cable to switch 2 things independently. It uses latching relays so if the blackstar has a regular jack and uses a latching footswitch you will be good to go on both of these counts.

3, I'm still deciding upon this myself. I'm probably going to go for the smaller 4 button peak controller as i like to save space where possible and you still have access to 99 presets with it. There are plenty of other controllers available such as the behringer 1010 if you want 10 buttons + up/down and 2 expression pedals. These can be got quite cheap and also have two relays for switching so you can add another two things in to be switched if you so wish.

4, Just a standard rack case would do. I'm getting one made by roadkill cabs that will be tolexed to match my cab and have an extra 2u space if i want to add any other rack gear in the future. I also toyed with the idea of getting an alternative headshell made that would have a slot for the G-major in the top but then decided against it.