Muddy schecter Baritone

[evil_meens]

so..

Typically I prefer a razor sharp, but saturated tone and my go-to pickup has been an EMG-81 almost my entire history playing guitar. It's worked well for me in both neck and bridge positions in all my alder and basswood bodies, and even with my schecter hellraiser with mahogany/maple. But... I have a problem child.

My schecter c-1 26.5 scale 6 string set-neck mahogany baritone is a PIG. The original JB / 59 combo was a disaster, and even after dropping in 81's, I get a few squeals, some grunt, and a whole lotta MUD. Granted, it's tuned to drop G with just about the biggest wires that will fit in the tuning peg holes, but I like the extended scale and overall feel and balance of the guitar, especially with my smaller fingers and hatred for fat 7 string necks.

What I'm looking for is a good pickup set to match the guitar and produce primarily a direct djent studio tone, but hopefully salvage a clean tone in there somewhere. I was leaning towards the aftermath set, but I thought I would gather opinions before jumping into a $300+ set of pickups. Thoughts??

Thanx!

[Kiichi]

Hi and welcome.

My guess would be the AM as well. It is very center mid heavy and as baritone mostly adds highs and lows compared to regualr scale that should even out rather nicely (also the reason the Black Dog is a great go to for baritones). It is also the tightest thing I have ever experienced, as the bass is just uber dry and fast. It does not have a lot or a very fat bass, but again that should play right into your hands (playes into mine with the axe I have the AMs in).
The cleans on the neck are very nice too (not en par with the more vintage BKPs, but blowing most things out of the water), especially when you throw a split wiring in there like I do.

Basecally if the AM canīt handle this and deliver what you need I am not sure if anything can. The only thing that might pose a problem really is the physical size of the strings, them possibly being too large for the magnetic field, which would leave the Blackhawk as the only option, though I do not think it will handle the other requirements as well as the AM here.
Which sizes do you actually use?

[Sarkasis]

Only being at 26.5" means you don't really have to contend with the demands of baritones, at least as far as the highs go. As much as I can vouch for the Aftermath, when I read "razor sharp" and muddy EMG 81s I thought more along the lines of the Painkiller. Cold Sweat is supposed to clear up muddy sounds as well. Nolly praises the Emerald for an alnico feel while still being tight and bright like a ceramic. Just a few to compare.

[schantist]

26,5" for a low G ? Sounds like mud to me, no matter if you install a 81, an Aftermath or a Lundgren for example...
And what's actually the thickest gauge you could fit through the tuning peg ?

[evil_meens]

Right now I'm using DR DDT's in 13-17-22-42-56-65

Ha, I know that sounds ridiculous, but it actually holds it just fine. I should elaborate a little bit;

The guitar never sounded very well even in higher tunings, standard C for example with appropriate strings. Even then it was muddy sounding and extremely difficult to control.

Ive been playing with tunings and string gauges on this guitar for quite a while now, my experimentations being a result of never being happy with the amount of mud I was getting to begin with, not the other way around. I've noticed that some people will sneer at extremely low tunings no matter what and point the blame at that, but I assure you this guitar was mud even with it setup to factory specifications.

I guess my real question is; which pickups seem to perform the best in a dark sounding mahogany body at low tunings period?

Do you think an active or a passive design is best suited for this application to begin with? I've used Blackouts in other guitars but I don't think I'll get much of a difference from an 81 that way.

Thanx for the replies!

[Sarkasis]

I'll try to address each point:

65 gauge at 26.5" scale is quite light for a G. My tension calculator is showing around 13 pounds of tension, when the average Strat strings have like 16-18.

As far as I'm concerned, tuning "low" is relative, mostly to the scale length of the instrument. What kind of performance you want out of your low strings is for you to decide, but I am a big advocate for longer scale lengths. They give you clearer low strings and more tension.

Whether active designs can have advantages I think is irrelevant since all the active pickups on the market are bad. Speaking from experience, Blackouts would be even worse than 81s, especially if you're concerned about mud.

The pickups mentioned so far - Painkiller, Cold Sweat, Aftermath, Black Hawk, Emeralds - these are the prime choices for tight and bright tones for low tunings.

But if you can't get a tight sound out of an 81, it may just be the guitar's fault. Whether to replace it or with what is a different subject.

[kahawe]

What you are describing sounds strangely familiar to me for one of my guitars (setneck all mahogany) and personally, I ended up attributing it to being all mahogany. For me, mahogany (or that guitar) has a mid/uppermid focus but chokes lows and the very high frequencies so playing anything resembling lead sounds GREAT and sings so amazingly but for example palm mutes never give me the attack and brutality a powerstrat can and there is always some sort of "muddiness" or it is a bit undefined - I have a set of A-Bombs with BKP pots in that guitar, mind you. Therefore I would try one of the brighter pickups to counter the missing attack and clarity and since you said djent, maybe painkillers? Or ColdSweat? But no pickups can conjure up frequencies that aren't there, of course.

Or maybe you accept the character of the guitar and make it work for you, play singing lead on it instead!

[Kiichi]

I agree with everything the others said.

And from their recomendations I feel like I should highlight the Emerald especially, an often forgotten metal favorite.

[ericsabbath]

cold sweat

[EffigyForgotten]

cold sweat

Mid scooped pickups aren't exactly the best for baritone guitars, id go for a Painkiller or Aftermath.

[darkbluemurder]

Even if the Cold Sweat does not have a midrange focus it is not midscooped, at least not in the high mids.

I do think however that good low midrange could help the low strings in a baritone project better.

Cheers Stephan

[Sarkasis]

I still say this doesn't seem like a case where usual baritone concerns are important. At 26.5" the high overtones aren't really going to be any more emphasized than they are on a Strat. Unless you think the Cold Sweat would be too bright? I haven't used one but I doubt it.

Since an 81 wasn't sharp enough, I don't think the Aftermath would really do it just because it's an all mahogany guitar and the Aftermath isn't any brighter but the Painkiller seems like a good option. Basically it comes down to what else he wants to emphasize, though going for a tight and bright tone on all mahogany/rosewood guitars seems a little counter-intuitive - if an EMG 81 sounds too grunty and muddy maybe it's time to look for a new guitar.

[Toe-Knee]

I would say if the 81 is too muddy then your only real option is something like the cold sweat.

All the other bkps have a lot more low end energy than the 81 and the additional brightness of the CS will really help imho especially as the lows are really quite subtle on the pickup so it should compliment your guitar fairly well

[ericsabbath]

the cold sweat has a bit more bass than the aftermath, in my experience (straight swap in the same guitar), but the low mids are more controlled and mids are much clearer and more open, although it's less in-your-face sounding
top end is pretty sharp and clear without getting piercing
didn't try it in any baritone, but it does sound great in lower tunings (haven't went as far as G, but I did try B and drop A)

misha had a blackmachine b6 (25.5 scale) with a cold sweat/vhii set
not a baritone, but 26.5 is not entirely on baritone spec as well

the aftermath and painkiller are pretty articulate, but I fear the huge amount of mids and output might saturate too much in that tuning