choices of capacitor for wiring inside a guitar

[JJretroTONEGOD]

Hi there,

I have recently bought some sprague orange capacitors for a couple of guitars but have not installed them yet

it was at this point that I realised that BKP make jensen capacitors and would like to know if you have had any experiences the BKP caps and if they are worth getting over orange spragues? they seem better quality but are rather expensive.

any help would be appreciated before I get to do some soldering.

[WezV]

capacitors of the same value actual value (not their stated value) do exactly the same thing and sound exactly the same.   its easy to test too, just wire a couple of caps up to a switch and select between them on the fly.  but you need to test them with a multimeter first to ensure tehy are actually the same value

I did it a while back.   I think there was some difference in the sweep, but full on and full off sounded exactly the same with the same sounds available in between, just not necessarily at the same location.   although some disagree with me on this and say even the sweep is the same

but i also found that cheap ceramic disc caps were often well under the stated value,which does account for a big tonal difference

the main thing you get with more expensive caps is tighter tolerances so they are more likely to be the value they state.   but you could buy 10 cheaper caps for the same price and get a few bang on the stated value.

I tend to buy orange drops now, they are pretty close to stated value and are not too pricey

[Toe-Knee]

capacitors of the same value actual value (not their stated value) do exactly the same thing and sound exactly the same.   its easy to test too, just wire a couple of caps up to a switch and select between them on the fly.  but you need to test them with a multimeter first to ensure tehy are actually the same value

I did it a while back.   I think there was some difference in the sweep, but full on and full off sounded exactly the same with the same sounds available in between, just not necessarily at the same location.   although some disagree with me on this and say even the sweep is the same

but i also found that cheap ceramic disc caps were often well under the stated value,which does account for a big tonal difference

the main thing you get with more expensive caps is tighter tolerances so they are more likely to be the value they state.   but you could buy 10 cheaper caps for the same price and get a few bang on the stated value.

I tend to buy orange drops now, they are pretty close to stated value and are not too pricey

I agree with this entirely. Another thing to take into mind is that in a circuit such as a guitar the cap will have very minimal affect in comparison to something running at high voltages which is where cap choice really counts imho.

I did a lot of experimenting as Wez has and found there to be no difference at all between caps of the same value.

[Philly Q]

Hmm, this could cause controversy with the paper-in-oil faction.....

It's a bit like the "guitar timber makes no difference" debate.

I don't really have a strong opinion about the capacitor question, so long as the tone control actually does something (and hopefully not all between 0 and 1, or 9 and 10) I don't really care how or why it does it.

[WezV]

its easier to test than the wood thing, 5 minutes with a soldering iron, a switch, and a selection of caps is enough

[BigB]

I can testify I always heard a difference between cheap ceramics and PIO caps (using the cheaper russian ones) of the same stated value :mrgreen: - but never actually bothered to check the real value with my multimeter (BTW Wez, how do you check a cap value with a standard cheapo multimeter ???). 

I've also read quite a few heated discussions about caps composition and their effect on tone on other places, and I can't honestly say that "PIO caps always make an obvious difference", just that they always sounded less sterile to me on the guitars I modded but well, I know what "psychoacoustic" means too :lol:.

When it comes to woods, I don't need a multimeter to know it makes a difference - even if not necessarily the one you would expect :mrgreen:

[JJretroTONEGOD]

hi guys and thanks for your responses,

I've realised that the orange spragues are fine and are certainly much better than the cheap ones that usually come as stock on most guitars, at first I was really shocked at how big they are expecting it to be tiny..

then I saw the orange beast and it's the size of the actual pots themselves! I need to improve my soldering skillz BRAP init,

next up going to solder my Danelctro 12 string and then a JJ Retro guitar tone pots.

[FELINEGUITARS]

I've never done a scientific back to back test
I know that I have used the orange drops and they sounded good
I then tried the PIO and really felt that I liked the result.
Better than the Orange Drops?- not entirely sure but they sounded so good that I have repeated the exercise repeatedly and always been pleased with the result.

Usually the victim has been a Gibson Lp , or SG and maybe the change from 300k pots to 550k ones and utilising "50s wiring" combined with getting rid of the "nasty" cheap little ceramic disc caps just made such a substantial difference that I have never really delved into the pros and cons of the PIO

Emotionally the change has always felt good too - and sometimes that mental shift (even if it is to some extent a placebo effect) just helps with the confidence in the job.

I know some of the guys on Music Radar almost blow a valve when the frequent question of PIO caps comes up, but I just go with what feels right and am happy with either the Orange Drops or the Paper in Oil

[WezV]

I took a bit of convincing on this one.  i went through all my capacitors for the tests including some expensive ones, some old ones, some big orange ones and some little horrible discs.

From a pack of 10 I did not find a sinlge ceramic disc that was within 20% of the value it should be.  most 0.022's were closer to 0.015, highest was 17.

out of the others most were within 10% and i found 4 different caps all rated at 0.02uf .  i dont think all the cheap multimeters do it but over a certain price point most have capacitance meters


those that rated 0.02uf all  sounded the same when using a toggle to instantly switch between

[WezV]

I know some of the guys on Music Radar almost blow a valve when the frequent question of PIO caps comes up, but I just go with what feels right and am happy with either the Orange Drops or the Paper in Oil

that they do! personally, i don't mind what people spend their money on.  i still occasional use PIO just because they look best and are often closest to stated value... and avoid ceramic discs for the same reasons

[Toe-Knee]

Emotionally the change has always felt good too - and sometimes that mental shift (even if it is to some extent a placebo effect) just helps with the confidence in the job.

[/quote

This right here is the most important factor. That the user ends up happy with the end product.

[darkbluemurder]

I do hear differences between various caps but they are not going to make or break a guitar. They can subtly enhance an already good guitar. Same for caps in amps.

For guitar tone caps I like Xicon MPPs since I feel that they bring almost no coloration to the sound when the tone control is full up, they are small in size and therefore easy to fit. I also like them in amps wherever I need to bleed highs to the ground. I don't like them as much when they are in series with the signal (such as guitar volume kits or coupling caps in amps).

Orange Drops work well as tone caps, so do PIOs, Jensens and Luxes. What you like best is personal preference.

Cheers Stephan

[juansolo]

(BTW Wez, how do you check a cap value with a standard cheapo multimeter ???). 

A less cheap multimeter.

The accuracy of some of these components is comedy. But they add to the mojo ;)

I'm about to build a Colorsound Overdriver with carbon comp resistors and other such mojo nonsense. It'll be interesting to see how different it is to the one made out of modern far more accurate components that don't look quite as pretty.

[WezV]

because i dont like to make claims without any evidence I have just wired the cap switch back up to my tester guitar - and a vid is uploading to youtube as we speak.

didnt have the same selection of caps i did last time i tried this so i have gone for a modern orange drop and vintage plessey capacitor.   I even dissected another plessy to show its pretty similar to the ones people pay a lot of money for

[WezV]

http://youtu.be/M9glO_v95jU