Bareknuckle Warpig or Seymour Duncan Invader?

[NateCordova]

Hello guys.

I have a Epiphone Les Paul Standard that, since i removed the finish from the neck, became a relatively bright guitar. It then made my JB4 sound thin, so i replaced with a Duncan Distortion, but to no good, because it's too damn fizzy and piercing high, i hate it!

I realize i want the following for the bridge pickup:

- A LOT of output (think invader, emg). I'll also coilsplit it.
- A Deep, Fat, and somewhat Tight Bass
- Warm highs, not fizzy.

I basically want a very high output pickup that produces me a Wall of Sound.

I know the SD Invader is close to what i want, since my guitarrist uses one in a Jackson. But even in his jackson, (a even brighter guitar than mine) i think it could use a tinny bit of highs. Like it has the tone knob on 8/9.

Is the Warpig the pickup for me?

Thanks in advance !

[HTH AMPS]

The standard alnico Warpig will be just the fella for what you describe.

[GuitarIv]

Definitely go and get a Warpig. I played them in a friends axe, they sound HUGE and have loads of output.
+ I own the Invaders and they are too dark, undefined and muddy.

[ericsabbath]

in my experience, the alnico pig has no near as much output as an invader
maybe the ceramic version might deliver that

[wolfenstein]

I have no experience with A pig but ceramic version will get you there...It has own thick midrange growl...With some hi gain amps it can produce realy brutal sludgy distortion...You can also look on Miracle Man which is slightly less gained brother of Warpig but itīs bit more controled and balanced to me...To get that brutality of CWP it need to be boosted...

[NateCordova]

I would like this:

A JB4 with smoother highs, more output (resulting in more compression), and a deeper bass/low mids. The bass doesnt need to be rediculously tight , just not as loose as a JB4.

People always say i have this tight palm muting lol, and i always play my Epi LP with a JB4.

I dunno about the ceramic, the only ceramic pickups i've liked were the SD Invader and the EMG 81, the rest just sounded plain fizzy :\ In the clips, the ceramic warpig seems more balanced, but i'm afraid to pull the trigger on another ceramic pickup, i hated the SD Blackout, and wasted my money on a duncan distortion and a artec pickup w/ a ceramic magnet (that i love the alnico magnet version of it).

How does a Warpig A5 compare to a JB4 in terms of mids? Do they have the same ammount of mids or the Warpig is honkier? I like the honk on my jb4, i'm just afraid the warpig might be honk-overkill haha. I've seen some clips in which it had too much mids, like here: http://tonefinder.com/files/271356972216-Lickliter%20XD120%20metal.mp3

(however, the dude is using a Gibson Les Paul Custom in a Lickliter XD120 amp and a Marshall Cab with V30 speakers. Never head of the amp before, but the rest of the setup is really middy)

[ericsabbath]

the a-pig isn't honky at all
it just has a lot of everything, in a way it sounds overall balanced (most pickups emphasize treble and upper mids)
it's not a dak sounding, pickup either
the output is similar to the jb, despite of having a much hotter winding
the low end is bigger, but it still delivers a clearer picking response

another alternative is the alnico miracle man (the neck model used on the bridge)
it's similar to the warpig, but more modern sounding

[Gibson 1964]

If you are looking for a jb-like sound with smoother highs, I think the warpig is not the right choice. I think you just described the holy diver. I have owned a Holy diver and it is nowhere close to what I was actually looking for. (In that instance, it was the rebel yell, which I would also describe as somewhat similar to the JB, though I would not describe it as having smoother highs necessarily. I would describe it as more organic, clearer, livelier and sparklier.)

The warpig sounds massive. Don't get me wrong, I own a set of the a-pigs in a takamine explorer. But it is not in the same arena as a jb. It is thick, substantially more dark IMO, and I had a JB in the same guitar previously. They are big, and wooly, and IMO not really that aggressive. I would describe it as fairly loose in the bass. Lot of output, sounds big, but not the most cutting pickup I have. IMO, the nailbombs I had in their previously cut better, but I moved them to a guitar I played more.

I really don't listen to pickups with the specs sheets anymore. I like alnico and ceramic and some neodymium pickups even. Try to set aside the ceramic is ___________ alnico is ___________. All things being equal they do influence things a bit, but all things are almost never equal in the world of pickups. That would come into play only if there are two versions, like the nb and wp.

But to me, it sounds like you are describing the holy diver. I might look at the miracle man  as well. Nothing similar to the jb, but you mention liking the 81, so a miracle man comes to mind. I really like the miracle man as well.

[NateCordova]

If you are looking for a jb-like sound with smoother highs, I think the warpig is not the right choice. I think you just described the holy diver. I have owned a Holy diver and it is nowhere close to what I was actually looking for. (In that instance, it was the rebel yell, which I would also describe as somewhat similar to the JB, though I would not describe it as having smoother highs necessarily. I would describe it as more organic, clearer, livelier and sparklier.)

The warpig sounds massive. Don't get me wrong, I own a set of the a-pigs in a takamine explorer. But it is not in the same arena as a jb. It is thick, substantially more dark IMO, and I had a JB in the same guitar previously. They are big, and wooly, and IMO not really that aggressive. I would describe it as fairly loose in the bass. Lot of output, sounds big, but not the most cutting pickup I have. IMO, the nailbombs I had in their previously cut better, but I moved them to a guitar I played more.

I really don't listen to pickups with the specs sheets anymore. I like alnico and ceramic and some neodymium pickups even. Try to set aside the ceramic is ___________ alnico is ___________. All things being equal they do influence things a bit, but all things are almost never equal in the world of pickups. That would come into play only if there are two versions, like the nb and wp.

But to me, it sounds like you are describing the holy diver. I might look at the miracle man  as well. Nothing similar to the jb, but you mention liking the 81, so a miracle man comes to mind. I really like the miracle man as well.

But isn't the holy diver the same output as a JB4? because it does sound like a medium-high output and i wanted bigger output too so i could have more "compression" which tbh, i like, and sustain too. Tell me your opinions on the following aspects of the Holy Diver:

Bass: Tight or Loose?
Output: More or less than a JB4? What about compared to the Duncan Distortion?

The miracle man is not really my option it apears to me as very treble heavy.

Btw, how can a alnico warpig have about the same output as JB4? thats just ridiculous lol, it's the most powerful Bareknuckle pickup produced! I'd be happy if it had a output of the Invader or just a little bit more than the Duncan Distortion. Maybe the reason why i hated the SD Blackout was cuz it was fizzy and uncontrollable as hell, not the case with emgs to my ears.

[Gibson 1964]

But isn't the holy diver the same output as a JB4? because it does sound like a medium-high output and i wanted bigger output too so i could have more "compression" which tbh, i like, and sustain too. Tell me your opinions on the following aspects of the Holy Diver:

Compression and sustain are largely the product of your entire rig. I play a soldano, an ENGL, and a Baron mostly. I have plenty of compression at my beck and call.

Generally speaking, the SD line has more output than BKPs. Output=/= compression or sustain. Output often ends up in a sense compressing your bandwidth in my experience, which leads to a more squashed sound lacking definition.

Bass: Tight or Loose?

Tightish. I own a fair amount of the bare knuckle line, and compared to an aftermath, not so tight. But compared to most pickups, fairly tight.

Output: More or less than a JB4? What about compared to the Duncan Distortion?

Isn't a DD a JB with a ceramic magnet? Anyway, slightly less. But I think my warpig is probably close to a JB in output too. HOWEVER, because of the increased fidelity, you end up with a much more aggressive sound if you desire it, without getting harsh.

Very capable of a lot of compression and liquidy sustain. Too much for my taste actually. They were a bit more compressed than the sound I was shooting for.

The miracle man is not really my option it apears to me as very treble heavy.

Which is funny, because, while it does have a fair amount, it isn't spikey like a JB. It comes off as smoother, ballsier, and bigger sounding IMO. Also capable of sounding smoother or much more aggressive than a JB. I'd say it's usable range is much broader.

Btw, how can a alnico warpig have about the same output as JB4? thats just ridiculous lol, it's the most powerful Bareknuckle pickup produced! I'd be happy if it had a output of the Invader or just a little bit more than the Duncan Distortion. Maybe the reason why i hated the SD Blackout was cuz it was fizzy and uncontrollable as hell, not the case with emgs to my ears.

Why is it ridiculous that BKPs are not overwound to the point of losing definition? It is hot, but there are plenty of pickups hotter out there. I have had an invader. That pickup was mud. It had no definition when gain came and it got lost in a mix like none other.

If you want it just hot, BK Pickups aren't the hottest out there. If you want it to sound excellent at super high gain levels, go with BK Pickups. There is a very big difference between a super hot pickup and one designed to sound excellent with high gain. I would actually rate my miracle man and nailbombs as sounding hotter than my warpigs, and they are capable of sounding far more scorching than a jb, but they do not have quite the output of them. That is a secret I learned after I had been playing for a while. If you want to sound like everything is super high gain, one of the first steps is not using overwound pickups. (Actives are actually low wind with a preamp, and while I am not a fan of actives they apply the same principle)

I would also like to point out that resistance ratings have little to do with the hotness of a pickup.

[dguitar]

Just to throw in my quick 2 cents, as somebody who just switched to a ceramic warpig and plays with a guitarist who uses the invader...

There's a very "real" body to the warpig that is both huge and clear, I'd assume this is due to the mids being so evenly voiced.  Highs come out very easy on the ears, while remaining stong.  The low end is unreal, not the tightest pickup I've played but the lows are extremely pure and powerful, so it really doesn't need the extra tightness.  It scores bonus points on a personal level because it doesn't djent or quack very naturally.

The invader sounds almost scooped in a way to me, as in lots of low end but uncharacteristic middles and a high end that is present and not harsh but not what I'd call warm either.  It sounds like you boosted the bass on your amp without taking into account the other settings.
I feel that is as unbiased as I can put it. Personally though, I never liked the invader even when I used to play with duncans on several guitars.

[NateCordova]

Thanks everyone for all the replys.  I chose the Ceramic Warpig, in some weeks i'll probably comment on it.

I'll also get the open coil version with nickel screws for both asthetics and to reduce a little bit the bass power. After all, i'm going to change from a JB4, which is a pretty bright pickup, to a bass and mid heavy pickup, so it should create a better balance.

I've opened another thread for this question, but i'll ask it here anyway:

Recently i had a new tonepros bridge on my LP, although i dont know the model because it was installed by the shop owner... but lately i've noticed this on my guitar :



The picture is taken directly over the pickups in a straight angle, and yes, on the bridge pickup the higher strings aren't matching the polepieces.

Do i need a 53 mm spaced Warpig?

[itamar101]

Yes.

[mongey]

Measure your stings . If its close to 53 then you need wide , if close to 50 normal. It's only looks. It doesnt affect sound at all IMHO. Run heaps of normal  spaced on f spaced and vice versa.

Back to the pigs even though you've ordered it seems they are both great. I have an Apig 6 string and a 7 string c pig. I say they are pretty even in output. The cpig is def tighter in the bass and the mids have less presence. And the cpig has a touch more treble . But it's all fine tuning. They are pretty similiar I find.

The biggest difference is the mid presence IMHO. The Apig is all bass and mids while the cpig is more sculpted if that makes sense.