Mule AV ?

[stonehenge]

I have two mule A IV bridges in two different guitars. Great as they are, I feel the same in two guitars a bit pointless and want to change one. What would you think of putting in an AV in a Mule? Would this be ok/good, or just mess up the voicing as it's wound for an AIV ?

[richard]

I'm sure I remember reading that Tim stopped offering custom options because he felt he had got the right voicings for his pickups and didn't want to sell custom orders that he thought wouldn't work. However, the pickup is yours to do with as you wish so why not try it ?  Have you swapped magnets before ?

[stonehenge]

Yes, magnet change is no problem, but no magnet to try yet. Thought it might be something some one else has tried and wether it worked well or not. I agree, that if Tim was trying to get a specific paf sound, an AIV in mule is used to get that tone and messing about with magnets would detract from that.  I have tried a black dog and it was too hot/thick, and a riff raff that was a bit shrill, so looking for something in-between those two thats not a mule just so's I don't have two bridges the same.

[FELINEGUITARS]

I have a couple of A5 mules and I like them , although the A4 is possibly sweeter sounding.

But if you have one going spare , and are confident to do it , then go ahead.
It will void your warranty but nothing more serious (unlike jailbreaking a phone - now becoming a criminal offence apparently)

[ericsabbath]

if you didn't like the riff raff, I don't see the point
it should sound a lot like a riff raff, but a little bassier and more scooped due to the offset coils

[stonehenge]

The reason for not liking the riff raff was a very trebly  top end, which the mule doesn't have. Are you saying the AV magnet in mules will give that very high treble? What do you suggest as an alternative to a Mule? I found BDogs too hot and thick.

[Philly Q]

it should sound a lot like a riff raff, but a little bassier and more scooped due to the offset coils

That was my thought too - sort of halfway between a Riff Raff and a VHII?

[TheyCallMeVolume]

it should sound a lot like a riff raff, but a little bassier and more scooped due to the offset coils

That was my thought too - sort of halfway between a Riff Raff and a VHII?

Sounds good to me!

[FELINEGUITARS]

Might try a VH2, although that has a bit of brightness.
I like an Emerald a lot - still A5 but 43 wire gauge - nice in a Gibson!
Bit like a punchier Mule to my ears.

[Zaned]

The reason for not liking the riff raff was a very trebly  top end, which the mule doesn't have. Are you saying the AV magnet in mules will give that very high treble? What do you suggest as an alternative to a Mule? I found BDogs too hot and thick.

That's what it'll do; give it more bass and highs, but that's a rough description. It'll change the feel too, and midrange response.

As an alternative, it depends on where you want the output. The only AV bridge pickup on the Mule output level is the Riff Raff. If you found Black Dog too hot, that'll probably be the case with Abraxas and Emerald too. Emerald being the brighter of the two.

In your case, I would probably go for the AII PAF, Stormy Monday. Vintage output, bright but sweet. And a nice differing voice from the Mules :) I look at them and I think 'The GAS is strong with this one'.

What kind of a guitar would the pickup(s) be going to?

-Zaned

[Tim]

With the greater offset in the coils of The Mule you will find that the highs become more pronounced with an Alnico V magnet which is why the Riff Raff offers a better voicing for AV. Obviously the type of AV used is important - the majority of AV used around the world today is anisotropic  which does power the high end quite aggressively compared to anisotropic AV(much less commonly used) which produces a much warmer response in the bass and high end. I find that most players prefer anisotropic AV as it produces a punchier tone and feel which is what is expected from an AV powered pickup whereas the response/feel of isotropic is more polite.
Alnico IV is isotropic hence the reason I partner it with the coil offset in The Mule - not only for historical accuracy but more importantly the best tonal result.

If you have ended up with 2 Mule bridges in similar guitars you could change the character/response slightly by adapting the pots and caps you use. I use 300K pots in one of my LPs loaded with Mules which produce a lovely controlled high end but not at the expense of note definition. I then partner that with 0.015ufd Jensen caps. It's a different but subtle take on The Mule which produces a complementary voice compared to my other Mule loaded LP. I would normally advocate 550K pots and 0.022ufd PIO for the bridge tone and 0.015ufd PIO for the neck which is a very tried and tested approach in a LP for great vintage tone and feel but the 300K pots and 0.015ufd PIOs do produce a good result from a brighter LP without moving out of the ballpark tone of the pickups.

[Philly Q]

If you have ended up with 2 Mule bridges in similar guitars you could change the character/response slightly by adapting the pots and caps you use. I use 300K pots in one of my LPs loaded with Mules which produce a lovely controlled high end but not at the expense of note definition. I then partner that with 0.015ufd Jensen caps. It's a different but subtle take on The Mule which produces a complementary voice compared to my other Mule loaded LP. I would normally advocate 550K pots and 0.022ufd PIO for the bridge tone and 0.015ufd PIO for the neck which is a very tried and tested approach in a LP for great vintage tone and feel but the 300K pots and 0.015ufd PIOs do produce a good result from a brighter LP without moving out of the ballpark tone of the pickups.

Very interesting, and also intriguing to see Tim advocating a particular application for 300k pots, given the general derision heaped on Gibson for using 300k on many of their guitars! 

[Tim]

300K pots and 0.015ufd cap with 50s wiring which can work well for brighter LPs -  Gibson use 0.047ufd and 0.022ufd caps with modern wiring which doesn't seem to produce such a good result.

[Lucifuge]

Is isotropic/anisotropic the same thing as oriented/un-oriented, which I see people talking about a lot on the Seymour Duncan Forums in relation to Alnico 5?

[stonehenge]

Well, some great responses, so thanks to all. Think the AV giving more highs is not where I want to be going. Stormy Monday, that's a thought, a bit too smooth, but heh, great tone, and may consider. Tim's approach of 300k 15 pio  is not something I thought about, guess that's my blinkered thinking due to the almost unanimous  'swap out 300 for 500' advice on lp forum.(bridge 500 pot 22 pio 50's wiring at present)  Since the pot swap is an easy job, and I have a few lying around, I will try that, when I get hold of a 15 pio.  Soo, as my old 300 pots are all mixed, any idea how to differenciate between a 300 gibson tone and volume pot? Any serial no references ?