Observations pt.2

[GuitarIv]

Hey fellas

kinda starting this thread again, with new results of an experiment I did before. That's why pt. 2.

To keep things short: I don't like the Holydiver in my Strat (Poplar Body, Maple Neck and Fretboard), however it suits my Jackson perfectly (Mahogany Body, Maple Neck, Rosewood Fretboard).

Now today I decided to expand the experiment. I had 3 guitars: My Bassists Jackson Dinky (Alder Body, Maple Neck and Fretboard) equipped with a Duncan Jeff Beck. My Strat with the Holydiver and the Slowhands (the SHs sound lovely btw, especially clean) and my 93' Jackson Fusion with currently Duncan Invaders (Painkiller and Coldsweat on their way).

I wanted to isolate the problem the Holydiver has in the Strat, so I decided to put the Invader and the Jeff Beck out of the two Jacksons into it. Now the Invader complemented the Strat perfectly, it provided the lacking body and beef I feel it's missing with the HD. The Jeff Beck sounded nice in the highs, had a lovely bite but still lacked low end and body like the HD.

So the conclusion is: my Strat is a midheavy guitar. Like REEEEAAAAALLY FORKIN midheavy. And the Holydiver is midheavy too. In the Jackson Fusion it has everything. Low end, no overbearing mids and somewhat sharp but still smooth highs. In the Strat it sounds thin, nasal, almost like a singlecoil. So I need something "scooped" I guess.

Suggestions? Miracle Man, C-Pig, C-Bomb or Coldsweat? Those come to my mind.

Btw, the HD sounded almost the same in the Jackson Dinky, strangely the JB suits the guitar perfectly though, unlike the Strat.

Please help me, give me suggestions, I really wanna make this guitar work and unfortunately the HD isn't the answer.

Thanks in advance and cheers!

[Toe-Knee]

Sounds like a job for the miracle man to me.

[darkbluemurder]

If you liked the Invader most of the three pickups you tried, I guess the C-Pig would be the closest in the BKP line.

Otherwise - to really balance out a midheavy guitar I would choose the Cold Sweat over the Miracle Man.

Cheers Stephan

[timmy_b]

Have you thought about the Aftermath? It's actually the closest spec to the invader. I would broadly agree to head for the ceramics indeed, they will all give a less aggressive midrange response.

[GuitarIv]

Thanks for the ideas guys.

Regarding the Warpig I'm not sure. I think it might be a bit overkill, considering I would need new Singlecoils like Sinners or Trilogy Suits.
I guess the Coldsweat would let me keep the Slowhands, the Miracle Man would very probably overpower them. So what would be the difference or what would be the similarities between the Coldsweat and the Miracle Man? How much bass and body does the CS have compared to the MM and how bright is it? The main aspect I wanna focus on is the depth of the sound, the topend should be less important than that, considering it doesn't get too spikey.

@Timmy: I honestly think the Aftermath would be the last pickup I should get for the Strat. With the sheer amount of centermids, the tight but not full bass and the modern sound it's certainly the wrong pickup for the guitar, I know for sure. I actually dont like the Invader since it's way too muddy and not tight enough, I just used it as reference to analyse what the guitar is lacking. And the Invader sounded the best in it since it obviously gives the most low end and fatness to the guitar, getting rid of the problem the HD causes in it. I actually love my mids and don't go for scooped stuff at all normally but this guitar screams for something with less pronounced mids and the Aftermath is just the exact opposite of that :)

Cheers

[darkbluemurder]

I actually had the Miracle Man and the Cold Sweat in the same guitar - a Jackson Soloist type with an arched maple top, mahogany body and mahogany neck w/ rosewood board, 25 1/2 scale. That guitar has a very strong midrange to begin with. Both pickups sounded fine in it. The CS stayed because its slightly recessed midrange was what the guitar needed. Output was a tad stronger with the Miracle Man but that was not what this particular guitar needed. The CS appears to have more bass due to the recessed low mids but that is not true - the MiM has loads of bass. CS is brighter, quite bright in fact but never harsh.

I also made the observation that this particular guitar did not like any PAF type pickup I put in there - they made the guitar sound weak and wimpy. Emerald is probably as low in output as I would go but the CS is staying.

I stick to my CS recommendation.

Cheers Stephan

[JimmyMoorby]

I bought an alnico nailbomb bridge for my ESP as my orange amp is very middy and this helped with 'that problem'.  Its hard for me to make a suggestion without knowing the sound youre going for but I can imagine if I did put my nailbomb into my strat it would sound incredible.... from raw blues and classic rock to metal too and it will help give it some balls too.

I think putting a warpig or say a black hawk into a strat would stop it from being any thing like a strat in the conventional sense and take it more into a say jim root from slipknot kinda vibe, not that i have any thing against him at all!

As for the miracle man ive never like any thing ive heard from that, cold sweats sounds really cool but youre going for the ton of treble there and do you want that sound?  I personally like the hi gain hi treble sound......dunno how it would sound in a strat tho...

[timmy_b]

OK, apologies if that one missed the mark haha, I read 'complimented the strat perfectly' and darkbluemurder's comments and ran with it..  :D

Also reading further your current single coils would certainly pair better with a medium output HB such as Cold Sweat or Miracle Man. Between the two of those I would personally head for the Cold Sweat as its going to be a good compromise of taming the mids but not killing the character of the guitar by over-scooping it's natural resonant mid frequencies.

[GuitarIv]

No worries Tim, I was a tad confused why a guy who works at BKP would suggest an Aftermath in this case hahaha :P
So it's down between the Miracle Man and the Coldsweat. Well I will have a listen again to the Jeff Beck that's still in the Strat right now again to see how spikey the highs behave, as said I don't want it to sound too harsh, just beefier. Thanks for the help guys!

[Zaned]

Actually, have you thought about going to lower output pickups? Like Mule, or if somewhat hotter, the VH2?

-Zaned

[GuitarIv]

Would be an option, alltough that would require a proper high gain amp. Right now I play through an Orange Micro Terror boosted with an Ibanez TS-9DX (My Valveking died) so lower output should be an option as soon as I get the EVH 5150III 50 Watt or one of the other amps I've been looking at. I play mostly Thrash, Melodeath, Death Metal and Blues, so versatile is a keyword here.

[darkbluemurder]

... with a medium output HB such as Cold Sweat or Miracle Man.

Interesting. I would never have thought either of them to be medium output. OK, the Wilde L-500 XL I had in that guitar before had more output than either but most other pickups I had in there were definitely lower output than both.

What would then be the high output pickups in the BKP range - Aftermath, Painkiller and Warpig probably?

Cheers Stephan

[timmy_b]

I was just referring to the output in relation to the aforementioned Aftermath, but yes they will all drive an amp nice and hard!

[ericsabbath]

I just replaced the stock gibson 500t and 496r in my friends gibson explorer with cold sweats
the bridge pup is no near as compressed and low mid heavy as the 500t, but apparently it actually delivers more clean output
sounds louder and punchier in the bass instead of just thick and muddy
huge improvement in clarity
I still find it a bit too bassy on the low Eb, though (the guitar is tuned half step down with 010-046 strings)
lowered the pup a bit, but if I lower it too much, the mids start sounding a little hollow

[GuitarIv]

Well, the Invader is now in the Strat. However the guitar still has plenty of snap. I guess I will have to go C-Pig in this case, should be bassier than the Miracle Man...