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Author Topic: Tramp the dirt down  (Read 24429 times)

JDC

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #45 on: April 10, 2013, 10:30:40 PM »
So what picks has everyone been using recently?

Toe-Knee

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #46 on: April 10, 2013, 10:38:22 PM »
I'm currently swapping between Planet waves black ice 1.1mm and the hetfield black fang 1.14mm that came with the JH EMG set.

Both are very nice picks.

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Philly Q

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #47 on: April 10, 2013, 11:13:49 PM »
Dunlop Jazz IIIs.  The red ones, of course, cos they're magic.
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Twinfan

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #48 on: April 10, 2013, 11:31:13 PM »
Communities based on one source of income were always at risk of collapse.  When those sources produce goods that are too expensive and/or of poor quality, even with hefty government subsidies, then the writing is on the wall.  Especially if they're also run by managers and unions who refused to modernise production methods to increase efficiency.

Margaret Thatcher's government didn't kill those industries and communities, they were terminally ill before she came to power. The early seventies weren't exactly rosy, so it's not like we somehow lost Utopia!  We gained massively as a country by having her as PM, and for that I thank her.

clyde billt

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2013, 12:23:54 PM »
What hefty government subsidies would they be Twin?
The only shipyard that received any kind of handout from Mrs T was Harland and Wolff in Belfast. And that had zero to do with their work and everything to do with keeping the loyalists happy.
The rest of British Shipbuilders was handed to its managers who in turn passed it on to asset strippers.
Swan Hunter on the Tyne, Camell Laird on the Mersey, Scott Lithgows on the Clyde. 80% of all ships in the seas were built by these yards.
They were at the cutting edge of the industry. Quite simply we built the best boats in the world.

The witch decided to cut the working week, and therefore the wages of workers at ports in Barry and Port Talbot.
Raw materials couldn’t get shipped to the steel works. This lead to the closing of the steel mills at Corby and Ravenscraig, amongst others, which meant the yards had to find other places to buy steel from. At a higher price.
This caused resentment between shipyard workers, steel workers and dockers all of whom felt betrayed by the other
This isn’t stuff I’ve googled Twin. I stood at these meetings.
Make no mistake. It was a deliberate act of Industrial sabotage. Solely to line the pockets of fat cat managers

In the meantime of course the Busan and Ulsan yards of Korea, PPL and Jurong in Singapore, who were getting subsidised, stepped right in there and took over.
Now they were of poor quality, but by $%&# were they cheap.
The industry wasn’t terminally ill then, nowhere near. And it isn’t now.
Those yards now are full of Drill ships, Floating Production ships, Drilling rigs, Production Platforms, Bulk carriers, LPG carriers, Supertankers, Super Containers, Mega Containers.
It’s also full of Jocks, Geordies, Smoggies and Scousers who work there and if you ask them they will tell you that they would prefer to build them at home.

But you do have to ask them before they hit the expat bars and all the girls come out to play.

Twinfan

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2013, 01:15:58 PM »
I don't know much about the shipyards, but I know the coal mines were heavily subsidised.  I think the threat from cheaper labour abroad would have hit ship building eventually anyway?  So the Thatcher government just speeded up the process I guess.  Western development is always going to move away from a manufacturing base due to the rise in labour costs.  It moved from the US/UK to Japan, who have now passed it on to Korea and China.  Developing African nations are probably next?

I know we have very different opinions, but I think she was right in what she did - commercial industries such as car and ship building aren't the area of expertise for a govenment.  Private companies should own and run them, paying taxes into the system the same as any other company.

richard

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2013, 02:00:33 PM »
Dunlop 1.14mm. I used to use picks half this size until my wife bought me the wrong picks and I found out that I much preferred them.

I will gladly mourn the death of Maggie as long as someone shoots Iain Duncan Smith. In the kneecaps to start with. Put one in his head an hour later.
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Afghan Dave

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2013, 05:54:18 PM »
I was Living in West Yorkshire at the start of her term and in London with my Yorkshire (Generational Labour voting) family through the rest.

No love was lost in my household for her policies but then the world and globalisation weren't at the forefront of our vested interests.

I now know better with hindsight.

Globally business changed, Life changed & the world changed. She was the British face of that change.

Was the change for the better?

In my estimation:
For productivity = Yes
For humanity = No

If you don't like her personality, fine. 

Change is painful. Painful but inevitable.

Labour and the unions stuck their head in the sand and fought that change and would have always lost that fight.

As with Marxism and its socialist ilk, "The perfect is the enemy of the possible"

She did what was necessary, saw change coming and embraced it in a way that was of benefit to her and her kind.

"Her Kind" weren't coalminers or dockers but "Her kind" were the majority of the British who voted her in again and again.

http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-the-thatcher-myths/13236
« Last Edit: April 11, 2013, 05:57:43 PM by Afghan Dave »
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MrBump

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #53 on: April 12, 2013, 06:57:31 AM »
http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-the-thatcher-myths/13236

Or...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/datablog/2013/apr/08/britain-changed-margaret-thatcher-charts#poverty

I'm actually finding the aftermath of her death interesting - not because of all the fighting or aggression, but because of all the points of view that are coming to air.  Yes, there are extreme views, but I'm also liking the social commentary that you didn't get back then.

I wonder how I would have felt in the 1980's if there was social media around like we have today, instead of an almost entirely right wing press?  Although having said that, I don't think that the the 80's would have happened without Murdoch...
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Johnny Mac

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #54 on: April 12, 2013, 07:49:20 AM »
I'm not even going to waste megabytes reading any of this.
Just row your own boats and get on with life.
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AndyR

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #55 on: April 12, 2013, 10:07:50 AM »
I'm not even going to waste megabytes reading any of this.
Just row your own boats and get on with life.

+1 :lol:

(Although I have actually read most of it... and again, I'm quite impressed, as usual, at how civil it all remained - nice one folks :D)
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MrBump

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #56 on: April 12, 2013, 11:56:21 AM »
I'm not even going to waste megabytes reading any of this.
Just row your own boats and get on with life.

+1 :lol:

(Although I have actually read most of it... and again, I'm quite impressed, as usual, at how civil it all remained - nice one folks :D)

Absolutely agree. 
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Fourth Feline

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #57 on: April 13, 2013, 01:46:23 AM »
I'm not even going to waste megabytes reading any of this.
Just row your own boats and get on with life.

+1 :lol:

(Although I have actually read most of it... and again, I'm quite impressed, as usual, at how civil it all remained - nice one folks :D)

Absolutely agree.

 :)

And to echo that attitude ;  Only today , I was remembering  how I worked with a Gentleman between 1986 to 1991,  whose politics were radically different from mine ; and who had himself worked as a Skilled Technician in a Mining area prior to work becoming scarce .  As a result of course , the existing differences between us could have been very divisive.  However ; after a civil introductory period when we agreed that debate over the matter was probably a waste of both our days - we did quickly realise that in most other ways , were both 'Like peas in a pod' when it came to how much we enjoyed putting in an energetic day's work - and how we would seek each other out if volunteers were needed in another department for an hour or two  , to help them catch up e.t.c.

As a result , ( and for the remaining five years we worked together ) it became an  understanding between us ,  that for both of us, there was a real sense of sanctity in work ; not just for the wage, but for the real joy we found in it.  This happy memory also reminded me of a quotation , that I think was originally said by Gustav Mahler , of his stylistic opposite Richard Strauss :

"  We were like two Miners digging from opposite ends of a mountain, and meeting in the middle ".

That is why I wanted to just do the B.K.P. Forum 'usual'  of being honest about my own bias - and then stepping back :   not only because of my ongoing respect for our host - and  old colleagues on here ,  but also because of that period of time  that I spent working closely with ( what some may have mutually called )  'The enemy' - and he and I finding instead ,  a vast amount of common ground that we shared in essence

Our cultural backgrounds, Political beliefs , internal symbolism - and a host of other factors , may have changed the way we expressed our beliefs in words, and therefore how we voted ;  but at heart ,  we were in many ways, actually trying to achieve the same thing - both for ourselves , and the people around us.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 01:48:50 AM by Fourth Feline »
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JJretroTONEGOD

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #58 on: April 13, 2013, 04:53:07 PM »
look at pictures of her and find ONE where she doesn't look sinister or evil.
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MrBump

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Re: Tramp the dirt down
« Reply #59 on: April 13, 2013, 06:06:09 PM »
look at pictures of her and find ONE where she doesn't look sinister or evil.

?

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