Advice needed - PRS HFS/Vintage vs BKP Miracle Man

[ericsabbath]

the question is: HOW do you know it's a real veneer? cause I couldn't tell for months
the top looked VERY real, no dean-like pixelated cr@p or those very artificial epiphone and ltd tops
I would never know if it wasn't for the back lines
when I see anything over AAA grade in a branded guitar under $1200, I already expect it to be fake
the only thing maple was the binding (that in a us-made PRS, is part of the top)

[Slartibartfarst42]

In fairness, I guess I can't know for sure but it certainly does look the part. The quilted maple finish on my PRS certainly LOOKS far better quality than the flame veneer on my Jackson and I like the detailing of having a maple binding to make it look like a proper piece of maple on top. I imagine a US made PRS sounds better and has a real quilted maple top of superb quality but in all honesty, I'm so impressed with my SE version that I couldn't imagine ever forking out £2000 extra to get one made in America. I've never had the chance to play an American made PRS before but everyone I've spoken to who has tried both has told me there's not as much difference as you might expect. That's not to say the American versions aren't top quality instruments because clearly they are but it is inevitably the case that, in my experience at least, as the price goes up you start to get diminishing returns. I'd say a PRS SE is 2-3 times better than a cheapish Squier but I doubt an American PRS is 4-5 times better than the SE version. My Japanese made Jackson Soloist cost me a good bit more than my PRS when new but I don't see much if any difference in quality.

[blackstrat]

Thanks for the replies guys. Lots of information so far.
I'm also open to medium output pups since dimarzio fred and duncan screamin demon sounded great through my rig.
So now I'm also considering HD/emerald, the emerald set or vh2 set.
The HFS sounds good through my rig, though I understand some people might not like its nasal and honky midrange. It sounds a bit sluggish at first but after adjusting the polepiece it tightens up.

[darrenw5094]

Nasal honky mids are the natural tone from the PRS CU24. The ceramic pickup have a very loose bass side to them.

[Slartibartfarst42]

If yours is an American PRS it may be different but on my SE, the Emerald was just too bright and too open. If you like the HFS, which is fairly compressed, I doubt you'll prefer the Emerald or VHII to the Holydiver. Bare in mind that although the Fred and Screamin' Demon look to be in the 'vintage hot' category, they'll sound somewhat more compressed than Bare Knuckles. I find that even hot Bare Knuckle pickups don't sound as compressed as lower output pickups from other manufacturers because they're so incredibly articulate. I think a lower output DiMarzio will give you some of the compression you like in the HFS but they will turn to mud far sooner than BKP, which just don't. Given everything you've said so far, I doubt you'll find anything in the vintage hot category as good as the Holydiver. I stand by my earlier suggestion of Holydiver/Emerald or if you want more aggression and less mids; the Miracle Man and either Emerald or Cold Sweat.

[dvorak]

In fairness, I guess I can't know for sure but it certainly does look the part. The quilted maple finish on my PRS certainly LOOKS far better quality than the flame veneer on my Jackson and I like the detailing of having a maple binding to make it look like a proper piece of maple on top. I imagine a US made PRS sounds better and has a real quilted maple top of superb quality but in all honesty, I'm so impressed with my SE version that I couldn't imagine ever forking out £2000 extra to get one made in America. I've never had the chance to play an American made PRS before but everyone I've spoken to who has tried both has told me there's not as much difference as you might expect. That's not to say the American versions aren't top quality instruments because clearly they are but it is inevitably the case that, in my experience at least, as the price goes up you start to get diminishing returns. I'd say a PRS SE is 2-3 times better than a cheapish Squier but I doubt an American PRS is 4-5 times better than the SE version. My Japanese made Jackson Soloist cost me a good bit more than my PRS when new but I don't see much if any difference in quality.

I have two SEs and two US built PRSes. And while I do agree that the SEs are really good guitars, and they do the job that a guitar should very very well.

Of course we are dealing with diminishing returns, but still the US ones are something special indeed. I was very scared when I bought my first US model, scared that it wouldn't be good enough to justify the price. I shouldn't have worried. Everytime I pickup the CU24 it feels very different to my SE CU24. The whole feel of it is different and for me after getting used to it, it would be hard to loose. Yes it is a lot of money, and depending on your economic situation, it might not be worth it. But if you have a possibility to get one I promise that you will not be disappointed.

But you don't have to shell out £2000-3000 for that feeling. My 2nd hand £600 Mira has got that wonderful PRS feel that my CU24 has. Twinfans DGT for sale would be a VERY nice option if you want to go US.

[ericsabbath]

I wasn't questioning the actual build quality of the korean versions
just that they sound quite different due to different construction, not the quality itself
I mean... a PRS SE might be better built than my jap hurricane lp cop, which has a gross polyesther/plastic plate over the whole back, but the hurricane does sound like a real les paul, since it follows the basic construction of a les paul
it probably doesn't even have the same mahogany species and certainly doesn't look or sound like swietenia macrophylla, but it does sound like a les paul should and it's one of my favorites
but the PRS SE didn't sound or feel nothing like any PRS I've come across
it was a great guitar, but had a thing of its own, just like schecters do

my only rant was that I felt deceived by the (beautiful) fake top and then I realized that most brands are doing the same thing these days
only a few of the big ones are using actual flamed tops or even flamed veneers, and most are photos or plain veneers with the flame/quilted patterns printed or sprayed (?) straight to the wood

I am a les paul guy, but I had 3 US made PRS in the last few years
I gotta tell you these are hard to beat guitars in every aspect
you can tell they are really careful when picking the best wood pieces
they resonate better than most honduras mahogany guitars I've seen from any brand or luthier
they're not just about the looks
didn't try the all mahogany models like the mira and the "standard" versions of the custom and mccarty
I had 2 mccarty customs (maple top) and a CE-22 (mahogany/maple), and played a few others
their maple tops are much thicker than they look from the sides, so they make a big difference soundwise
their stop tails may seem a bit silly, since they don't have adjustable saddles, but they tend to be quite plug n play, unlike tune-o-matic loaded Gibsons, that usually require some fine tuning setup

it's kinda dangerous to make comparisons like this, but although SE's are better built guitars than Epiphones, for example, they are further from a real PRS than a good Epiphone is from a Gibson (by good, I mean a regular constructed Epiphone, as some are a complete mess with 10+ pieces of alder and basswood glued together)
I don't think I'd ever pay the price of a new PRS Custom, but you can find a used McCarty (that's a still a little overlooked for some unknown reason) or even a singlecut for half the price of a new one
believe when people say they're worth the value over the SE's
definitely not just a corksniffing case
they're the real deal
and I'm swearing by them as an EX-owner
:D

[Slartibartfarst42]

And naturally I defer to your greater experience. I'd still love to own a US made PRS and at one point I nearly did but then I put my sensible head on and realised that for what I do with a guitar (covers band and private enjoyment) I just couldn't justify the cost. I don't have limitless disposable income and unfortunately, in the cold light of day, there are more pressing and practical needs. My Jackson cost me £1000 when new and my PRS SE Custom 24 cost £350 used but in 'as new' condition. If I could be left with only one guitar, I'd take the PRS without hesitation. In that price bracket, I can't see why anybody buys anything else. I can only imagine how good an American PRS is but based on the Korean versions, they must be very special indeed.