Okay, I'm ready to pop my BKP cherry.....

[JTG]

Okay, so I've been looking into a few BKP offerings, but can't seem to decide. I initially was interested in the A-Bomb, but then after listening to the band Godsized (one of the BKP featured bands) I started thinking maybe about the VHii or Black Dog. I like to play heavy rock, like Down, COC, Sword, Godsized, but also more classic rock kinds of stuff. A lot of you guys have been wickedly helpful in the other threads (that I kind of over run, sorry) and maybe could give me one more bit of info before I drop the cash for a pickup.

I want something with good bite, but not harsh, clarity, harmonics, grunt and some good old-fashioned balls. It's going into a heavy, but snappy '86 Les Paul Custom. I'm currently building an amp for the duties. It will be something along the lines of a Boger Shiva or Splawn Quickrod into a quad of old Greenbacks (Blackbacks). I use a little bit of reverb and delay and am not opposed to using a boost.

Thanks guys,
~Jay

[Telerocker]

Black Dog, to balance the bright topend of your LP. Good for downtuning too.

[richard]

This set up screams REBEL YELL.

[JTG]

This set up screams REBEL YELL.

Had to pick something not on my list, didn't you?  :lol:

Thanks for making it harder.

[Telerocker]

Remember, Rebel Yell is one of the brightest alnico BKP's.

[Philly Q]

I'm thinking the RY would be too bright, too modern sounding, for the classic rock and stoner rock/metal you mentioned.

And although I know bugger-all about amps, isn't the Quickrod also famously bright-sounding?

I'm not sure what to suggest, but the Black Dog doesn't sound a bad idea to me.

[JTG]

I'm thinking the RY would be too bright, too modern sounding, for the classic rock and stoner rock/metal you mentioned.

And although I know bugger-all about amps, isn't the Quickrod also famously bright-sounding?

I'm not sure what to suggest, but the Black Dog doesn't sound a bad idea to me.

Quickrod is fairly bright, but has a very thick midrange.

[ericsabbath]

there's no such thing as "too bright" for a good les paul or similar built guitar, in my experience

my '73 custom has a quite spanky character (probably due to the combination of a very thin mahogany neck, ebony board and lightweight tailpiece), although it's not what I'd call a BRIGHT guitar, and pickups like the cold sweat and the riff raff were the best in it

also had the riff raff in a '96 PRS mccarty which sounded very bright, but it was simply the best sounding guitar I've played
I miss it, but I couldn't bond with the PRS neck and feel
it was BRIGHT, but not thin sounding, and the extra sparkle was very musical and pleasant

my bandmate has another mccarty with a miracle man, that also sounds quite bright in his guitar, and he previously had my old cold sweat in it
they both sounded absolutely amazing

it's hard to recommend something specific in these cases, as any model could work pretty well in different ways
as I told in the PM, even the high output models have great dynamics, but if you don't wanna worry about rolling kobs, the lower output models will make things easier, and the pedals will deliver whatever extra push you need

the nailbomb is definitely one of the top models for those tones (along with the miracle man), but for some reason, it's usually a love it or leave it pickup, so you better be sure about it
it has a strong bass, lots of low mids and a cutting top
the mids and upper mids aren't scooped, but aren't bumpy as shown in the chart
it's a big, but focused tone, with lots of aggression

the vhII has similar punchy and focused character, but it's less low mid heavy and definitely more dry sounding, with less hair and more articulation
it has a slight midscoop, like the cold sweat, and although it's definitely edgier than the vintage models, it keeps a bit of the mule and riff raff paf voicing
this is probably the tightest sounding alnico model in bkp range, maybe along with the rebel yell
I never understood the van halen relationship, although it works for that... this should be called stormrider or something  :D

the black dog has less bass and treble them both and LOTS of mids... sounds warm, a little spongy, but still very articulate.
rather soundgardenish than downish... more of a dimarzio DNA than gibson or seymour resemblance
this is all about midrange and fluidity, like the holy diver, but in a 70's form

since you're voicing your amp to your own tastes and you're open about using pedals, literally any model will work
you just gotta find your favorite flavor
I've been happier than ever with the riff raff/mule set and I can play whatever I want with it without feeling that I'm forcing it out of its league, as long as I have my amp and my pedals
Tim claims that if he had to take only one guitar on the road, he would take his mule loaded les paul
I loved the bridge mule as well in another guitar, but the riff raff has a little more clarity under lots of gain

[JTG]

So, I may be leaning more towards the Black Dogs now. I really like the BKP clips of that one and the Nailbomb best, but on the heavy clips, you can  hear the string separation more with the BlackDogs. The tone just sounds more clear for a lack of better terms. Eric is right, if I DO need more OOMPH, then I can always use boosts while retaining more clarity from the lower-output pickup. Also, I found some clips from Bruce Dickinson (Little Angels, not Iron Maiden) and he has some good rock tones. I can hear the "sponginess" or "juiciness". Still, I can't deny that Sam Coulson gets some great classic tones from his Nailbombs.

Thanks guys, I think I'll start with the BlackDog. I'll report back and try to post some clips when I get one in.

[Gary_Goo]

My problem with the Black Dog was that the mids were just too much, hence my looking for a different pickup in my 78 LP Custom. Yes it sounds big and lead tones are very full, but I found it compromised the clean sounds and I just found myself rolling off a bit of mid to clean it up a little. If my amp was mid heavy I'd probably steer clear of adding mid on mid and losing a bit of clarity and cut. A lot of people seem to love the Black Dog though, so it's definitely a taste thing. Personally I think too many people make their guitars too mid/low mid heavy in the quest for a massive sound and then in a band situation can't cut through the mix even at high volumes.
I have tried a Riff Raff in my 78 and it was way too bright and spanky for the maple neck/ebony fingerboard in that guitar.
I'm currently torn between the VHII and the Mule, but if I was wanting a more rock sounding guitar I'd probably go VHII, although as has already been mentioned the Mule covers a lot of ground for a vintage output pickup.

[JTG]

My problem with the Black Dog was that the mids were just too much, hence my looking for a different pickup in my 78 LP Custom. Yes it sounds big and lead tones are very full, but I found it compromised the clean sounds and I just found myself rolling off a bit of mid to clean it up a little. If my amp was mid heavy I'd probably steer clear of adding mid on mid and losing a bit of clarity and cut. A lot of people seem to love the Black Dog though, so it's definitely a taste thing. Personally I think too many people make their guitars too mid/low mid heavy in the quest for a massive sound and then in a band situation can't cut through the mix even at high volumes.
I have tried a Riff Raff in my 78 and it was way too bright and spanky for the maple neck/ebony fingerboard in that guitar.
I'm currently torn between the VHII and the Mule, but if I was wanting a more rock sounding guitar I'd probably go VHII, although as has already been mentioned the Mule covers a lot of ground for a vintage output pickup.

Does the Black Dog really have a LOT of mids? As in, overpowering? My LP Custom is fairly bright, but very full-toned. It has an amazing acoustic tone when strummed unplugged. As a reference, I've used the Duncan JB for years, and it has always been my go-to pickup. It's on the verge of being a tad too bright, but has always worked well for everything I've played. What BKP would have similar brightness without being over the top, vintage-hot output and all the goodness of the BKP winds?

[JTG]

After looking at the riff-raff, it looks interesting. Stupid choices.

Okay, what about VHii vs BlackDog vs Riff-Raff?

[ericsabbath]

Does the Black Dog really have a LOT of mids? As in, overpowering? My LP Custom is fairly bright, but very full-toned. It has an amazing acoustic tone when strummed unplugged. As a reference, I've used the Duncan JB for years, and it has always been my go-to pickup. It's on the verge of being a tad too bright, but has always worked well for everything I've played. What BKP would have similar brightness without being over the top, vintage-hot output and all the goodness of the BKP winds?

well, coming from a JB, the dog won't feel that middy

the rebel yell seems to have a similar brightness to the JB, maybe a little brighter
no near as hot, but still hotter than what I'd call "vintage hot"

[ericsabbath]

After looking at the riff-raff, it looks interesting. Stupid choices.

Okay, what about VHii vs BlackDog vs Riff-Raff?

that's precisely what I have now in my 3 les pauls

the riff raff is my favorite
mine has a custom 4mm thick magnet, which adds a little more output and bass, according to Tim, but tonally, it's still close enough to regular one
it has a thick bass and an even voiced midrange (not bumpy like it appears on the chart), with a lot of top end sparkle (not really treble heavy like the cold sweat)
I'd say it's actually the most balanced of the 3
pretty much how we should expect a stock gibson to sound (if their pickups didn't suck ass)
it takes pedals better than any other bridge pup I had

the only bridge pup I liked as much this was the mule, but the riff raff has the edge on higher gain situations
the mule is a little more organic sounds amazing up to medium gain... it has a bright top with smooth response in the mids that blends the chords notes in a very natural way without mudding them, but when the gain passes a certain level, the string separation and articulation of the riff raff wins

the neck vhii in the bridge position sounds A LOT like the riff raff, by the way, but it's just a little midscooped in comparison

the bridge vhii sounds hotter and punchier than the riff raff
it has the strongest bass response of the 3, and the most focused tone
it has as much top end has the riff raff, but its slight midscoop makes it a little less overall bright sounding
lots of attitude from this guy, if you're still looking for something like the nailbomb, but without all the output and compression

I liked the black dog in my custom, but it sounds much better in my '78 greco lp standard (maple neck, brazilian rosewood board)
it's a brighter and middier guitar, and although the mids can get a little honky, it seems to work well with the maple neck midrange
the greco with the black dog doesn't have as much low end as the les paul custom with the riff raff, but the extra midrange adds some interesting fullness and seems to push the amp a little harder
I like having different flavors, but this not the classic les paul sound... it has this "bognerish" thing going on, rather than a classic riff-raff-marshall sound
but this is on the maple neck greco... in the gibson custom the center mids weren't THAT prominent, but the dog still sounded very middy and a lot different from the riff raff

[JTG]

I listened to some clips of the RR, BD and VH for a while. Then double checked them. Then listened to the BKP clips. lol

I really like the clean tones from the RiffRaff, then the VH, then the BlackDog least. The mids seemed to push too hard, where the RiffRaff had this almost crystalline sparkle in the high end.

EDIT: I listened more and the BlackDog sounds a lot better than I thought. lol

They all sound good on high gain. I'm going to have to listen a bunch more, but the three of them sound excellent. I think I also need more Les Pauls.

The Black Dog and Riff Raff impress me the most.