Pickup suggestions - Tradition S20 LP

[GuitarIv]

Hit us up when you had the chance to spend some good amount of time with your upgraded baby and don't be afraid to ask more questions if you need help! Cheers :)

[nomadx]

Hit us up when you had the chance to spend some good amount of time with your upgraded baby and don't be afraid to ask more questions if you need help! Cheers :)

Will do.  I hope to have it this afternoon or tomorrow.  A watched "pot" never boils!  I know...a sad attempt at humor! :)

[GuitarIv]

Hahaha :P

Looking forward to your results!

[nomadx]

After a couple of afternoons of playing, I have to say I'm a bit dissapointed.  The upgrades didn't really "lift the veil" like I had hoped.  The guitar seems to fight me when I'm playing; like it struggles to sing out.  I thought the upgrades would bring it to life.  Am I expecting too much?
 
Is it cheap wood, bridge, nut or etc. that makes this happen?  Do les pauls just sound this way?  Give it to me straight, folks!

[Slartibartfarst42]

It shouldn't be any of those things or at least, I'd be surprised if it was. As you've changed the pots too, that eliminates another possible reason. It sounds like you feel there's a bit of a blanket over your tone at the moment and that doesn't sound right with those pickups and those pots. I can only think of three possibles:#

1) Pickup height. BKP are VERY sensitive to this so it's worth experimenting.
2) Incorrect wiring. It happens to the best of us. There was another thread recently where a guy had taken it to a tech to install everything and it still went badly wrong. Once the wiring was fixed it all started sounding wonderful.
3) Covers. The difference is marginal but I certainly found that open poled pickups cut through better. I love some of the covers but I'm not inclined to have anything other than open poled from now on.

[nomadx]

I'm not saying the tech didn't make a mistake, but he comes highly recommended and I have a considerable amount of faith in his knowledge.  If there is something that can be done, it's most likely the pickup height.  I'm not sure how the tech decides where the height is placed.  I'll have to do some playing around with that.  I've read where players are lowering the pickup to clear up the sound and then raising the poles to get the output back.  Thoughts?

Don't get me wrong, the pickups definitely made a difference in the sound but I didn't get the WOW I was hoping for.

[Kiichi]

I find that lowering the PUs takes out some output, makes them less hot and compressed and therefore adds back some openness and a bit woodieness too. Can bring out hights too. Generally cleans things up a bit I feel.

Raising the pole pieces while lowering the PU brings out brightness and makes the sound tighter and more focused imho.

I like my PUs set low with pole pieces raised, just the way it works for me.

[nomadx]

Thanks for your thoughts, guys.  Kiichi, how much higher are the poles than the top of your pickup?  Are we talking about millimeters difference or only fractions of millimeters?

I emailed my tech to ask some questions.  Funny thing is that I get no response after the work is paid for.  :censored:

[Kiichi]

Kiichi, how much higher are the poles than the top of your pickup?  Are we talking about millimeters difference or only fractions of millimeters?

I have just measured them on my Ibby S570 with RY bridge and Mule neck.
Now I am not talking top of PU to top of pole piece, but top of PU to the line where the rounded top of the pole piece begins as that was easier to measure (and represenst better how much I actually raised them).
There I got about 1mm to max about 1,2mm.
As a point of reference, fretted @ 24th fret the distance between string and top of pole piece currently is 2,5mm treble, 3mm bass side on the bridge and on the neck 2mm on both sides.
I have tried a freaking lot of different things over the 2 years I have them and I will probably continue to, but this is my absolute fav so far. Might back the bridge up another quarter or half turn and see how that goes.

I just started the process on the new SH bridge SM neck set and my Manhattan neck, plus I think I will try a MQ neck I have lying around in place of the Mule in the Ibby. Yes, I am mad...
With the AM set I have it also worked to get me closer to where I wanted, but the guitar was wrong for them so they are looking for a new home too right now, as the SH/SM combo took their place.

All this tweaking can really take a lot of time, as the height and pole piece height work of each other a lot and you just gotta try a lot of different settings.

[nomadx]

Thanks again, Kiichi.  I lowed my bridge pup about 2mm and it made a huge difference.  It's much more responsive and defined sounding.  The sustain improved dramatically as well.  I'll still mess around with the height and find the sweet spot for tone.

[Dave Sloven]

I emailed my tech to ask some questions.  Funny thing is that I get no response after the work is paid for.  :censored:

This does not surprise me in the slightest, I'm sorry to say.  This is why I am keeping my installation simple, just a complete vintage harness from a reputable luthier interstate and the BKPs, installing it myself soon with just four places that need to be soldered and then set my pickup height etc myself to taste (which it seems like you have to do anyway).

I've even heard of friends here having lesser quality components installed and the tech keeping the caps etc that the person brought in.  I don't trust them putting components in.  The only thing I'd use a tech for is fretboard work because I don't have the right touch for that and I'm afraid I'd damage the binding.  Still I don't like the idea of handing my guitar over as people are never as careful with something that's not their own, at least in my experience  :x

[GuitarIv]

Same here, people I have brought my guitars to have screwed up stuff soo many times, especially the wiring, so that I bought myself everything needed for maintenance, soldering and all the other things I can do on my own and I have practiced with an old guitar I have and don't mind screwing anything up. As a result I'm now completely independent when it comes to switching pickups, cleaning rusted parts, setting everything up. I think it should be every guitarists least DIY knowledge, considering you wanna keep your weapon of choice in the best possible shape. It's really just practice (best done with an old beater you have, starter guitars are good for this :P). Now if I only would learn refretting and fret dressing... but that's a matter of quantity. My luthier told me you need to do at least 100 fretjobs before you start to get a feeling for it. Still that's a thing I'll happily leave to him :)