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Author Topic: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard  (Read 12009 times)

Dave Sloven

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Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« on: June 10, 2013, 05:37:23 AM »
Hello everyone.

I am new to all of this pickup swapping business, but I've just ordered the Cold Sweat neck pickup and the A5 version of the Nailbomb bridge pickup via the BKP website.  My guitar is a Gibson SG standard with the heritage cherry finish, a 2011 build with a rosewood fretboard.  It plays really nice but I bought it over the internet without playing one through an amp (I had played one unplugged in a guitar shop - I was too shy to ask to play it through an amp) and while I loved the action and feel of it as much as the ones I saw in the shop the sound of the 490R/498T combination is something I really hate.  I really can't get a sound I like out of the neck pickup and there is a very limited range on the tone and volume controls where the bridge pickup sounds good at all.  This is with gain/distortion.  Clean the bridge sounds pretty good and the neck is okay.  As I mainly like playing '80s thrash metal and punk styles the clash between the sound of these pickups and the sounds I am looking for is pretty clear.  Thanks to all of you here who have commented on these pickups and on the SG in particular, it was very helpful. I also asked on the BKP facebook page (after reading every comment I could find online and every youtube video I could find) and settled on the CS/A-NB combo following advice given there in response to my question.

I did not order any pots or capacitors as I haven't pulled the SG apart yet and had a look (I suspect they could do with upgrading though).  I ordered the pickups with 4 connectors to allow for push-pull pots to be used (I'm thinking I'll use them in the tone position, as it is more out of the way of my hand and less likely to be knocked, is that wise?) and I'm wondering what people recommend for such pots and what kind of wiring options - phase reversal, coil split, or series/parallel - would be most useful?

I'm thinking phase reversal on the Cold Sweat and coil split on the Nailbomb but I'd like to read some opinions from people who have done it themselves already.

To give some idea of the kind of music I like to play here's a list of bands whose songs I tend to jam on the guitar at present:

Sodom (hence the user name!), Celtic Frost, Poison Idea, Thin Lizzy (Cold Sweat!), Black Sabbath, Motorhead, Discharge, Venom, Destruction, Accept, KISS, Ratos de Porão, Terrorizer, Ramones ...

I'm wondering if the standard set up would suit most of the time and maybe use the coil split for some of the punkier stuff like the Ramones or '60s type stuff that I haven't mentioned (Who)?

Anyway thanks again for all the info and I'll let you know how it turns out.  I don't expect it to be too spectacular a change in terms of looks as I specified chrome covers to match the originals. 
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 06:06:37 AM by Agent Orange »
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WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
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BigB

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #1 on: June 10, 2013, 07:57:50 AM »
If your SG came with 300k pots you'll want to replace them with 500k, and you'll probably benefit from better caps too.

wrt/ wiring options, I personnaly find series/parallel to be a much better option than coil split but YMMV. Also and FWIW phase reversal only affect the middle position.

Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)

ericsabbath

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #2 on: June 10, 2013, 09:48:35 AM »
you'll be fine with the pickups you ordered
just make sure you have at least 500k pots
Riff Raff, Mules, Black Dog, VHII's, Cold Sweat

Dave Sloven

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #3 on: June 10, 2013, 10:42:43 AM »
Thanks guys, I appreciate the responses.

Yeah I think these pickups will sound really good for what I want to do.

I'm thinking that if I use push-pulls for the tone controls I can wire them so that they can be out of phase when both selected - which will give me more options for mixing the two pickups - and wiring the Nailbomb with a parallel option might also enable a few more sounds out of that without loosing the humbucking feature.  I'm not looking to make it sound like a P-90 guitar.  I can go out and buy a P-90 SG if I want that.  Epiphone makes a half-decent one (the 50th anniversary model) that I've seen on sale here for $600.

We've been doing okay here in Australia with the exchange rate but that seems likely to change as the federal election approaches, and I don't think these low prices on guitars will be around for much longer.  I've been really lucky that it has allowed me to have a new SG Standard with BKPs for under $2000. 8)

P.S. I also had a look at this schematic but it looks very complicated!

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=jp_style


There is a guy with an SG on youtube claims that it allows him to do all this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2MvqMml4thQ
« Last Edit: June 10, 2013, 11:44:20 AM by Agent Orange »
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
COBRA-T
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN
TRUE GRIT

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

BigB

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #4 on: June 10, 2013, 11:59:33 AM »
I'm thinking that if I use push-pulls for the tone controls I can wire them so that they can be out of phase when both selected

Yes Indeed.

and wiring the Nailbomb with a parallel option might also enable a few more sounds out of that without loosing the humbucking feature.

Since you're already going for a complex wiring serie//parallel on the neck might be a good option too. Mare usefull than phase inversion as far as I'm concerned, but here again YMMV.

P.S. I also had a look at this schematic but it looks very complicated!

http://www.seymourduncan.com/support/wiring-diagrams/schematics.php?schematic=jp_style


it's indeed about as complex a 2HB / 2V / 2T / 3way switch wiring can go.  I'm not sure the "neck/bridge series" option really make sense with 'buckers, or at least with hot ones like the ABomb and ColdSweat FWIW.  If you go for the full monty another possible use for the 4rth push-pull (once you have series/parallel on each pup and phase reversal) could be a volume/tone bypass on the bridge pup for full blast aggression.

My 2 cents...
Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)

Dave Sloven

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #5 on: June 10, 2013, 12:05:59 PM »
I'm not sure the "neck/bridge series" option really make sense with 'buckers, or at least with hot ones like the ABomb and ColdSweat FWIW.  If you go for the full monty another possible use for the 4rth push-pull (once you have series/parallel on each pup and phase reversal) could be a volume/tone bypass on the bridge pup for full blast aggression.

My 2 cents...

Thanks! I appreciate it.  I've not wired a guitar before and my soldering experience is limited to slot cars so I might have to ask a friend to help me out, and that complicated set up may indeed try his patience beyond human limits when it's not even his own guitar.  The bypass does like a good idea, I could have the tone set more finely for some passages and then kick everything to full and then go back to exactly where I was before ...
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
COBRA-T
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN
TRUE GRIT

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

BigB

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #6 on: June 10, 2013, 12:52:40 PM »
I've not wired a guitar before and my soldering experience is limited to slot cars so I might have to ask a friend to help me out, and that complicated set up may indeed try his patience beyond human limits when it's not even his own guitar.

A very simple yet effective trick is to draw your guitar controls cavity on a piece of cardboard, mount your pots and switch on the cardboard, wire everything possible here, then transplant the result on the guitar and wire the remaining parts.

Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)

Dave Sloven

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #7 on: June 10, 2013, 01:16:38 PM »
Cheers.

I saw in another thread that you have an A-bomb in an SG, and you are happy with it.  What styles of music do you play, and which neck pickup did you match it to, and did you use any push-pulls at all?
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
COBRA-T
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN
TRUE GRIT

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

BigB

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #8 on: June 10, 2013, 08:26:48 PM »
I saw in another thread that you have an A-bomb in an SG, and you are happy with it.  What styles of music do you play, and which neck pickup did you match it to, and did you use any push-pulls at all?

Used it for the punk-rock / grunge / alt-rock / sometimes-bordering-on-metal mix we played with my previous band. Paired with a Mule neck (not the most obvious combo nor the easiest match but I first had the Mule neck and it sounded so good for clean and bluesy crunch tones I didn't want to replace it). I almost only used the bridge in my band anyway. No push-pull or fancy option, 50s wiring and russian PIO caps and that's about it.
Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)

Mr. Air

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #9 on: June 10, 2013, 08:50:14 PM »
If your SG has mounting rings you could go for some Seymour Duncan tripleshot mounting rings. They'll give you parallel and coil split options by the flick of two small switches and they're easy to install.
Mississippi Queens, Stormy Monday/Apaches, Emeralds, Nailbomb (bridge)

Dave Sloven

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #10 on: June 11, 2013, 02:20:37 AM »
Thanks, but it is a 'standard' SG Standard, meaning that it has the large pickguard and no mounting rings with covered pickups.

Here's a photo taken the day I got it:



I'm pretty sure it will look the same after the mods, as I ordered chrome pickup covers (not engraved) with the long legs, and I will be using the same knobs and switches.
« Last Edit: June 11, 2013, 02:24:25 AM by Agent Orange »
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
COBRA-T
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN
TRUE GRIT

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

Dave Sloven

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #11 on: June 11, 2013, 05:48:55 PM »
Thinking it all over I might just try standard wiring as a replacement harness with 0.022 capacitors, CTS 500K pots, etc.  Could save me a lot of headaches.

I am wondering if people think that the vintage wiring style is the way to go with these pickups?  I can pick up a full replacement harness for this guitar at a decent price.  It would also allow me to put the factory pickups and harness to one side in case I ever wanted to sell the guitar on one day (although this is doubtful).

EDIT:



Looking inside the guitar just now the modern wiring harness looks fiddly to work with.  I can't tell the value of the pots without lifting the assembly out but the capacitors look a bit odd.  I might be best off to just lift this right out and put a full vintage harness into it, and not worry about the switches at this point in time.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2013, 08:46:51 AM by Agent Orange »
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
COBRA-T
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN
TRUE GRIT

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases

darkbluemurder

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #12 on: June 13, 2013, 09:49:36 AM »
I definitely would not plan to use push-pull pots in an SG without measuring the cavity deepness and getting the information on the installation measurements of the pots - the cavity may be too shallow for the push-pull pots to fit.

Cheers Stephan

BigB

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2013, 11:35:35 AM »
I definitely would not plan to use push-pull pots in an SG without measuring the cavity deepness and getting the information on the installation measurements of the pots - the cavity may be too shallow for the push-pull pots to fit.

It is at least in my own 80' SG Standard.
Have: Crawlers, BGF 50/52s, Mules, ABomb, RiffRaff
Had : Slowhands (n&m), Trilogy (b)

Dave Sloven

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Re: Cold Sweat (n) Abomb (b) in SG Standard
« Reply #14 on: June 13, 2013, 04:59:25 PM »
Looking in that cavity that's sort of what I was thinking.  If they do fit they will be hard up against the cover, which doesn't seem like a good idea.

After that and the advice from musician friends here in Adelaide and on this forum I will just install a new vintage-style harness and just solder the new pickups to that.  The ones on sale here look pretty good, and it has the advantage of allowing me to remove and replace the whole assembly and place the originals in a box ready to go back in again if they ever need to.  I don't like the idea of trying to solder near quick-connects, as I am a bit clumsy and might melt them!

EDIT: I just bought this harness via ebay, should expedite the process of getting those pickups into my SG.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2013, 03:14:39 AM by Agent Orange »
BLACK HAWKS
IMPULSES
COBRA-T
WAR PIGS
STOCKHOLM
COLD SWEATS
MIRACLE MAN
TRUE GRIT

https://slovendoom.bandcamp.com/releases