Early thoughts on a guitar dilemma

[dave_mc]

they've stopped making the japanese jacksons so i'd think long and hard before selling it- not saying not to, because only you know what you want, but if you do sell it, you might never be able to get another one, so you need to be sure.

also you don't have anything with single coils, either.

really you need about 10 guitars. there's your problem. trying to do it with 2? does not compute, lol.

but more seriously, assuming you still play enough heavier stuff to justify the jackson, i'd keep the jackson, maybe swap the pickups in the PRS for something more pafy/hot pafy and then maybe get something with fender-style single coils.

if you do want to go the gibson etc. route there are some decent deals on last year's models if you don't mind laminated rosewood, baked maple and the like.

[Philly Q]

really you need about 10 guitars. there's your problem. trying to do it with 2? does not compute, lol.

Only 10?  :P

[Slartibartfarst42]

The Jackson is certainly a beautiful guitar but I find I'm playing less and less full-on Metal and what I do still play can be covered perfectly adequately by the PRS. I don't actually play the Jackson that much anymore though I suppose these things come and go and I may fall back in love with it in a month or two. In the past, I did have all of three guitars for a while  :o but I just found that the third was played so rarely it seemed pointless keeping it. I've always loved Blues but I find that as I get older (rapidly approaching 50) I'm drawn towards playing Blues more and more so it seems sensible to invest in a guitar that will play that style really well. Gary Moore is easily my favourite guitarist, especially when ripping into some Blues. Maybe that's why I'm drawn towards a Les Paul style guitar even though most I've tried have been a pain to play.

Upon closer inspection it seems that even the EC-1000 has no maple top so the difference between the EC-401 and EC-1000 is actually pretty marginal. So what difference is it likely to make on the tone by having a single-cut without the maple cap you get on a Les Paul?

I've looked at the Epiphone Prophecy and it seems really nice but I wish they did it with the better access joint they use on the Matt Heafy model. I'm not sure what the neck access is like on the LTD because it's hard to find a decent picture while on the Ibanez models, the neck joint on the ARZ looks pretty good.

If the necks on the Edwards are slim, they may be worth a look but where do I find one here in the UK?

Basically I guess I'm after a Gary Moore Blues tone with maybe a bit more compression in a guitar that is up to approximately £600. (that's for the guitar only - I'll sort out pickups on top of that)

[dave_mc]

^ No worries. As I said, think long and hard before selling it (your saying that you may fall in love with it again suggests it'd be worth not doing anything too hasty), but only you know exactly what you want, and if you do think about it and decide you'd rather have something else, then by all means go for it.

Japanese tokais might be worth a look. You might (if you're lucky) find one for around £600.

There are some deals on Gibsons at the moment too, but not sure if any are really les paul standard-style.

Normally I prefer a maple top, I think. It adds a bit of brightness. Not sure if I've tried it on otherwise identical les pauls, though. Of course, lots of players like all-mahogany guitars, too, so it just depends on what you like.

Only 10?  :P

I was trying not to scare him away, that's the conservative estimate :lol: We all know the correct number of guitars to own is "Just one more..." :D

[rotpunkt]

Only 10?  :P

I was trying not to scare him away, that's the conservative estimate :lol: We all know the correct number of guitars to own is "Just one more..." :D

I believe there is actually a formula for this: x = n + 1
Where x = the ideal number of guitars and n = the number of guitars you (currently) own...

[Slartibartfarst42]

At the moment I'm in no particular rush with the Jackson. If someone came along who was interested, I'd sell it and if I still have it in maybe a year's time I'll start to be a bit more proactive about selling it. I took some pictures of it the other day and it really is like new. There's not even any scratches on the back! What do you think would be a fair price for it with the original Seymour Duncan pickups back in it? I figure whatever that is, it would be about £150 more with the Bare Knuckles. All of the internal Bare Knuckle electronics I'll just leave in there.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Obviously there's only so much I can do online and eventually I have to play them but some do now seem more likely than others.

PRS - If the Tremonti is as bright or brighter than a Custom 24 I see absolutely no point in getting it as I might as well just get a second Custom 24 and change the tone with different pickups. That being the case, if I am to get a PRS that isn't a Custom 24 it would have to have the fat neck and the best option there seems to be the Bernie Marsden so I'll give that a try.

LTD - Everything I've heard suggests the EC-401 is a really good guitar and I know the neck is ideal for me. Upper fret access doesn't seem to be much better than any other Les Paul style guitar so it really depends on whether it has that deep and rich Les paul tone or not. If it doesn't, I won't be interested as again, I'd be better with a Custom 24 or one of the all mahogany LTD double cuts.

Epiphone - Due to my reservations about the quality of the Epiphones in comparison to PRS or LTD I'd say the Prophecy is out of the running as I can't see it giving me anything I can't get from PRS or LTD. The Matt Heafy model is a different story as the upper fret access on that is astonishing so I think I have to look at that.

Ibanez - A late consideration this but one that certainly seems to have some merits. Two models seem possible; the ART and ARZ. Both will have reasonably slim necks and both have fairly cheap models where the only difference with the more expensive ones are cheap Ibanez pickups but as I'd be changing the pickups anyway, that's not really an issue for me. The ART has the disadvantage of what looks like a conventional neck joint but other than that it seems fine, though again, it would depend on how close its core tone is to a Les Paul. The ARZ has much better upper fret access so the only thing that obviously puts me off this is the lack of fret markers (the main reason I bought the Jackson instead of the Torero) and of course, it would still depend on how close it is to a Les Paul in core tone. Given that these guitars are approximately half the price of the LTD and PRS models I'm looking at, thanks mainly to cheap stock pickups, I'd be able to install my preferred Bare Knuckle pickups and change all of the electrical internals to Bare Knuckle and still have some change. I'm sure the EC-401 is superb but clearly I'd be partly paying for EMG pickups that I'd never actually use.

So there it is; I'm pretty sure that the Bernie Marsden will sound the closest to a Les Paul so that's my starting point and if I can live with the neck, I'll get that. With all of the others, it's really about which one is closest to that Les Paul tone I'm after and I'll probably buy whichever one is most deep, rich and resonating. If none of them are significantly closer than a Custom 24 and I don't like the wide fat neck, I'll just get another Custom 24. Simples

[darkbluemurder]

I'm pretty sure the 22's and 24's both have the same scale, as do the mcartys. Its the single cut 245's that have the gibson scale. The rest are 25" halfway dead in between?

You could be right. I'm not familiar with most PRS-models, only that the SE-guitars deliver a lot of guitar for the money.

He is right.

Cheers Stephan

[dave_mc]

I believe there is actually a formula for this: x = n + 1
Where x = the ideal number of guitars and n = the number of guitars you (currently) own...

yep exactly :lol:

At the moment I'm in no particular rush with the Jackson. If someone came along who was interested, I'd sell it and if I still have it in maybe a year's time I'll start to be a bit more proactive about selling it. I took some pictures of it the other day and it really is like new. There's not even any scratches on the back! What do you think would be a fair price for it with the original Seymour Duncan pickups back in it? I figure whatever that is, it would be about £150 more with the Bare Knuckles. All of the internal Bare Knuckle electronics I'll just leave in there.

It's hard to say really. I don't really know too much about second-hand values. normally if something is in really good condition (as a seller) you'd be trying to get close to 70-75% of the going rate new. Whether you'd get that is another thing, lol, especially in the current market (which is another reason why selling now might be a bad idea unless you absolutely have to). Though the fact it's been discontinued might up the value a little bit, too.

EDIT: the other thing i'd say is, all those guitars you're looking at are, IMO anyway, arguably a step-down from your jackson. Obviously if the jackson is totally unsuitable for what you want to play now, it may still be worth it... but again i'd think long and hard about downgrading. I'd personally rather have a better guitar, lol.

[Slartibartfarst42]

It's all good advice and I promise not to rush into anything. I suppose that for the last few months I've just been drifting away from the Jackson, partly because the Rock covers band I'm in doesn't use such an extreme style a lot of the time and partly because as I hurtle towards 50 my tastes seem to be mellowing somewhat. With regards to it being a step down, that may well be true but I reason that when I bought the Jackson, a chunk of what I paid for was Seymour pickups that I changed to Bare Knuckle and an OFR trem that I will no longer need. I have, however, decided that an Epiphone of any description is too much of a step down so they're out. Everyone says the LTD is a great guitar but enough people have said that upper fret access is horrible for me to believe that this is also unlikely. That leaves the Ibanez ARZ and PRS. I think my first port of call is going to be trying the Bernie Marsden model as I've heard nothing but excellent reports and find out for myself if the wide fat is too thick for me. If it is, I'll try the Tremonti next and then work from there. Actually, I came up with two other options and I wondered if anyone had any experience of them. One is a Chapman ML-2 and the other is a Charvel Desolation DS-1 or DS-2

http://www.andertons.co.uk/solid-body-electric-guitars/pid24522/cid671/charvel-desolation-series-ds1-st-in-trans-red.asp

http://www.andertons.co.uk/solid-body-electric-guitars/pid24526/cid671/charvel-desolation-series-ds2-st-in-trans-red.asp

http://www.andertons.co.uk/solid-body-electric-guitars/pid25504/cid671/chapman-ml2-in-antique-sunburst.asp

[tekbow]

I thinkk you should give a bigger neck a chance, big necks mean more toanz, and also real men play big necks, otherwise i'm going to have to ask you to shave your beard off and hand in your man card.

;)

[Slartibartfarst42]

 :mrgreen: Well I'd better give themn a go then as I'm not sure I'm ready for the sex change operation just yet!

It's certainly about getting the balance right between tone and playability. I had an Ibanez RG for quite a while and when I first switched to the Jackson, even that neck felt like a baseball bat! Of course, I got used to it and the Jackson neck is ideal now. I can even cope fine with the PRS wide thin, though the Jackson neck is still my marginal favourite. I'm pretty sure that the Bernie Marsden will have the tone I want but it seems the neck is even chunkier than the wide fat but I will give it a go and if it doesn't work out, I'll try a 245 as well. The PRS SE range seems to have the best quality at this price point so I really think I should have an extensive try of their range before I dismiss anything. Even if someone came along and bought my Jackson tomorrow, I'd still take my time over this purchase and try plenty guitars.

I'm intrigued by the Chapman ML-2 but it seems that although the specs on the Charvel are fantastic, they're made in China and call me a gear snob if you want but I'm not dropping £500ish on a guitar made in China, especially when coming from a Japanese made Jackson. I have no issue with Korean PRS guitars as the quality of my Custom 24 isn't that far off the Jackson and I believe the quality of the EC-401/EC-1000 is also very good. I don't find Korean Ibanez guitars to be quite as good but then the ARZ300 is rather cheaper anyway and as I don't like fretboards without inlays, I was toying with using the saving to get a luthier to fit a new fretboard to it with inlays and jumbo frets. It wouldn't be my first choice but it's something I may investigate.

In the meantime, bring on those big necks  :guitar4:

[Philly Q]

In the meantime, bring on those big necks  :guitar4:

You'll be playing a '54 Les Paul before you know it.  :P

[Toe-Knee]

The EC-401 is alright but i did find it to be extremely hard to play sitting down and it was very unalanced. Body heavy so to speak.

The upper fret access isnt actually too bad on it but the neck is pretty narrow and it cramped my hands up a lot.

[dave_mc]

i'd still say any of those are a step down from your jackson (especially now you've pimped the cr@p out of it, which as you say, is another reason not to sell though i suppose you could sell the upgrades separately if you really cared). i'm not sure they're that different from an epi (but i could be wrong). i've heard some horror stories about the newer charvels (but haven't tried them myself).

upper fret access isn't gonna be great if you want a LP style, really. Unless you get one with the feline-type heel (and even then, i suspect it's "better" rather than "great").