Early thoughts on a guitar dilemma

[Slartibartfarst42]

At the moment I have two guitars and I'm in no rush to own more than two but I do think I want there to be a slightly different crossover between what they do. My current guitars are a Jackson SL3 Soloist with a Miracle Man and Sinners so obviously set up for Metal. My other guitar is a PRS SE Custom 24 with a Holydiver/Emerald set so set up more as a Rock/Metal guitar. What I really want to do in the next 12 months is change the Jackson for something that is more of a Blues/Rock guitar.

As I love my PRS so much I've been thinking of just getting another Custom 24 but loading it with Abraxas pickups for that Blues/Rock tone. This would have some obvious benefits in that I already know the guitar well and they're great for playing pretty much anything but with a pickup change being the only variable between the two, would I really get two distinct flavours?

The other option is to buy a different guitar and I find I'm thinking about a Les Paul style guitar. Now let me say from the outset that I LOVE the rich and warm tone of a Les Paul but I've never really liked playing them for two reasons. Firstly, the necks are too thick and uncomfortable and secondly, the upper fret access is woeful due to the single cut design. I've spent years trying to find that Les Paulish tone in a double cut guitar but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that to get that tone, you simply have to have a lot of mahogany. The PRS single cuts are out as they all have the wide fat neck so I'm thinking that the most likely candidate would be a LTD EC-401 of some description so my first question is, what are these guitars like? I doubt I'd be keeping the stock pickups so they're not really a factor.

IF I went the single cut route, which do you think would work best as the Blues/Rock guitar and which as the Rock/Metal guitar? My first thought was to keep the PRS as the Rock/Metal guitar as upper fret access is very good for the solos and I know my pickups work well in that guitar so I just have to decide what to put in the LTD for Blues/Rock but I feel I need to at least consider doing it the other way around, in which case I have to think about pickups a lot more. I'm pretty sure the Abraxas set will do my Blues/Rock tone in the PRS but would the Holydiver/Emerald set work well in the LTD?

As I say, it's early stages at the moment but I would appreciate any thoughts and insights you may have on this issue and these guitars.

[Telerocker]

I would look for a (used) PRS SE Custom 22 because it has good upperfret acces, but Gibson-esque scale.
Personally I would throw in a Mule-set or Black Dog/Mule-set.  For blues/rock I like opensounding, very articulate PAF's. As all BKP's they handle gain with authority. Of course an Abraxas-set would do no harm too.  :)

[tekbow]

I'm pretty sure the 22's and 24's both have the same scale, as do the mcartys. Its the single cut 245's that have the gibson scale. The rest are 25" halfway dead in between?

[Telerocker]

I'm pretty sure the 22's and 24's both have the same scale, as do the mcartys. Its the single cut 245's that have the gibson scale. The rest are 25" halfway dead in between?

You could be right. I'm not familiar with most PRS-models, only that the SE-guitars deliver a lot of guitar for the money.

[tekbow]

I think the newer ones from the last 4 years or so do for sure, the earlier ones were iffy..

I think the most bang for buck PRS is the CE guitars, mainly 24's, can come in at well under a grand on the bay and were made in the US alongside the CU's with all the US hardware and attention to detail that the CU's had. Just bolt on instead on set neck

[Telerocker]

Yes, they're good value for money. I'm not a PRS-guys, but I played a few. Not all had the vibe. but the workmanship is happening and the trems are solid. I particularly like the Swampash Special.

[tekbow]

Agree, I played more i haven't liked than i've liked, mainly CU24's and 22's. I was lucky with the one i own. The swampash specials are great, do they still make em?

[Zaned]

Considering the les paul..

Classic Les Paul tone is a sum of its parts; scale length (it affects tone), construction (neck and headstock angle, single cutaway), mahogany AND maple. That maple top changes the tone, as does the thick slab of mahogany beneath it.

Many people think mahogany is dark, whereas it's actually not. A good specimen, I mean. It does have emphasized mids. Maple also has a lot of mids, buf different.
A good les paul is not muddy. I have a bright one :) A bad les paul is dull and nasal.

Upper fret access is not the best, I know. However, many manufacturers (like Feline) have improved that greatly. And even if you go the regular LP route, they have many different neck sizes. Although I myself don't mind the PRS wide fat at all, so maybe Gibbys have almost always bigger neck than you like :)

-Zaned

[Telerocker]

Or a Les Paul Special DC with two Nantuckets.... blues and rock all the way.

[Philly Q]

The other option is to buy a different guitar and I find I'm thinking about a Les Paul style guitar. Now let me say from the outset that I LOVE the rich and warm tone of a Les Paul but I've never really liked playing them for two reasons. Firstly, the necks are too thick and uncomfortable and secondly, the upper fret access is woeful due to the single cut design. I've spent years trying to find that Les Paulish tone in a double cut guitar but I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that to get that tone, you simply have to have a lot of mahogany. The PRS single cuts are out as they all have the wide fat neck so I'm thinking that the most likely candidate would be a LTD EC-401 of some description so my first question is, what are these guitars like? I doubt I'd be keeping the stock pickups so they're not really a factor.

If you want Les Paul-ish tone but don't like fat necks and would prefer it not to be a singlecut, you could consider Yamaha SG or Ibanez Artist models.

We'd be talking used, of course, as the Artist is long out of production (there have been some recent reissues, but with some inaccurate details) and Yamaha are only making high-end SG models nowadays.  But you can get some good bargains on eBay if you go for the lower ends of the ranges like, for example, an SG700 or AR100. Especially if you don't mind a few dings and scratches.

The only downside on those '80s guitars is that they are heavy.  Very heavy.  But that may not be an issue for you.

Can't really comment on the ESP/LTD EC models, I've never tried them, but I've always thought they look like very cool guitars and a good LP alternative.  If I didn't mind skinny necks, I'm sure I would have owned one by now.  But I can't stand skinny necks! 

[Telerocker]

I had a Yamaha SG in the late eighties. Sounded great, but the weight... I got tired of it. Thank God for swampash...  :)

[Philly Q]

I have some "saved searches" on eBay in the hope that one day I'll find a freakishly lightweight old SG2000 or AR300.  But I'm coming to the conclusion it's never gonna happen.  :lol:

I've even considered getting one custom made with lighter timber or a chambered body, but with both of those guitars I really like all the specific details like the inlays and the proprietary hardware, so getting a "copy" would involve too many annoying compromises.


Coming back to Slartibartfast's dilemma, I'm trying to think what other options there might be..... there are probably some modernised Les Paul types in the Schecter and Dean ranges.  And there's the Epiphone Prophecy series, not sure if they're still being made but those 24-fret LPs with EMGs or Dirty Fingers look quite cool.

[Slartibartfarst42]

Mmmmm, lots of ideas that I'll try to cover methodically.

PRS - If I end up getting another PRS it will be an SE Custom 24. There's nothing else in the range that really does it for me in quite the same way.

Gibson Les Paul - Just too expensive and the necks are too thick.

LTD - The spec of the EC-401 does mention a maple top but I suspect it's only a maple veneer. If I moved up to the EC-1000 I'm just not sure. It may or may not be a proper maple cap. Does anybody know?

Ibanez Artist series - This double cut design does appeal for the access to the upper frets but I'm a bit confused about the range. It doesn't feature on the Ibanez website, suggesting it's out of production yet a quick search on Ebay showed me AR250, AR325 and AR420 models being sold brand new for prices ranging from £299 to £420. At these prices I assume the maple top is wafer thin and of course, the neck is maple instead of mahogany.

Ibanez ART/ARZ - Other than the ARZ having a more sculptured neck joint I'm not sure what the difference is between these two. They're certainly cheaper than the LTD models but again, it's a maple neck and maple veneer if it even has that.

Yamaha SG - I've always loved these guitars ever since I first came across Santana so I could be sorely tempted by a 700. The problem with a used guitar for me is usually one of condition. My guitars are always absolutely mint and I rarely find a used guitar in the same condition as mine.

Dean - Tried one a few months ago and I was quite impressed but I felt more at home with the LTD I tried (not an EC model).

Schecter - tend to have quite chunky necks.

All in all, I don't seem to be much further on  :( It sounds like to get a Les Paul tone the best option is still LTD but I'd at least have to go to the EC-1000 to get a proper maple top and I'm not even sure of that. Once I get to that model I'm also starting to pay £100+ of a premium over the PRS for a guitar with much worse fret access, though I suppose I'd get used to it - most other people seem to be able to manage it.

[tekbow]

if LP's are too expensive, how about a tokai or edwards?? their mid range stuff isn't quite up there with an LP (although i think the higher end stuff is better made while still being cheaper than most standard gibsons), but very doable. I think the edwards have slimmer necks too

[Philly Q]

I think the edwards have slimmer necks too

They do, and the new Edwards models currently in the shops seem to have slightly slimmer necks than Edwards guitars made 5 or 6 years ago.

They new ones are too slim for me - BUT, I think they might still be too thick for people who like slim necks.

LTD - The spec of the EC-401 does mention a maple top but I suspect it's only a maple veneer. If I moved up to the EC-1000 I'm just not sure. It may or may not be a proper maple cap. Does anybody know?

Oddly enough, I think the EC-1000 models are all mahogany, no maple top at all.