Pickups for a Les Paul clone

[lyonk55]

Switching about pickups has left me with a spare set of miracle men humbuckers I'm looking to trade or sell to give something a bit different a try.

The guitar is a Tanglewood Les Paul copy: all mahogany with a rosewood fretboard (and currently Entwistle HV58 pickups) and I use an Engl Screamer combo with a BBE Green Screamer OD pedal. This is often quite bright and gets harsh quite easily, so I'd like to try something with a bit less treble. Something big and full sounding, without being overly warm and "soft". I've only ever used higher output BKPs, so I'd like to try some of the lower output ones (or maybe P90s).

This would mostly be for modern alt/prog rock like A Perfect Circle, Tool, Coheed and Cambria and a little metal like Opeth. Maybe not the exact tones, but a rough guide.

From what I've found on here, the Black Dog or Holydiver sound promising. So does the Abraxas, but there's a lot less info on that one. Curious about the P90 range too, but I've got zero experience with that kind of pickups (other than knowing they're oddly sized single coils).

Anyone got advice or experiences they're willing to share?

[Telerocker]

I bet Stockholms could cover those styles, they will sound huge in a Les Paul. The Holy Diver would be a safe bet.

[Kiichi]

I got a Stockholm bridge, Supermassive neck combo in a LP style guitar. Its Maple with mahagony stripes neck through with heavy mahagony wings and a ebony fretboard.
The sound I get here is amazing to me. Thing is that with the woods and the LP scale the sound is rather middy. P90s compared to humbuckers have somewhat more treble and bass. This makes for quite the amazing fit I feel.
The Stockholm is a massive sounding thing. When you look at the chart on the site that is what you get. Lots of low end. Beautiful thing is that I never feel that is sounds dark really, as the main quality of P90s comes in, giving you that full frequency response to keep it always open and with great attack. There also is single coil brightness in there. Its not that it is lacking high end, the low end is just a bit more prominent.
Being a single coil in essence they also give a different kind of definition on the low strings compared to HBs, which keeps them real clear and direct. Add on top of that the amazing P90 growl and you got a rock and metal machine.
What I feel comfortable playing with this pub easily ranges from Bullet for my Valentine and Avanged Sevenfold to Blink 182 and Poets of the Fall.
Especially Blink 182 have to be notes as something I really really dig with these ones.

Also from all the pubs I have ever tried this one makes pinched harmonics easiest for me.

[lyonk55]

The Stockholm was the P90 I was thinking of, but it doesn't seem many people have them. Sounding like it could be a good choice (for the bridge at least). How does the Stockholm neck compare to the Mississippi Queen neck? And do P90s use different value pots than humbuckers? I'll probably swap them out anyway, but need to know if 250K or 500K would be better if I go for them.

[Philly Q]

And do P90s use different value pots than humbuckers? I'll probably swap them out anyway, but need to know if 250K or 500K would be better if I go for them.

Despite being single-coils, they're usually used with 500k pots rather than 250k (although vintage Les Paul Juniors sometimes had a 500k volume, 250k tone setup).

[Kiichi]

Yes, P90s are very, very underrated and often forgotten in my mind. Since I discovered them I am hooked. HBs and SCs also have their place and I will use them too, but to me P90s really are the best of both worlds.

I use 500k and they are most widely recommended. Some people like to exchange either tone or volume for 300k too to take the highend a bit.

I cannot speak directly for the Stockholm neck as I went with the Supermassive but I can compare that with the MQ and add what I have been told by Ben.
When you compare the MQ to the SM the SM has quite a bit more bottom end and a more modern voicing. It however does not get muddy, but it really is big on clean chords and such. The more modern voicing makes it a bit more fluid and fat, while the MQ has more of a old school bite to them. They also to me feel a bit more agressive because they are brighter. The MQ does not lack bottom end btw, so it is not that kind of bright. Both can really roar and scream, but one is more modern and fatter, bassier, the other more vintage, biting and brighter. Thing is that both can easily be made to sing too, which is really nice about P90s too.
When you factor in the SH neck that is supposed to have even more bass, hotness and agression (in that modern sense) than the SM, which is why I went for the SM. The LP I have put it in is really have and has a deep kind of bass and quite a bit of it, so I felt the SH would have been overkill for me there. Plus I like my neck PUs brighter.

Actually I am still searching for a proper home for my MQ neck. Tried it in a semihollow downsized LP, all mahagony with rosewood board, a Feline custom and currently I´m giving it a run in my Ibby S series with the IT middle and RY bridge. In the Feline I now have a Manhattan which is much nicer and sweeter for cleans in that axe and in the Ibby I will go back to the Mule that was in there...or maybe try the AM neck just for fun.
This trying has showed my that the MQ neck is brilliant rock PU, but for my taste it needs something like a les paul. In that I am 99% confident it would kill.

For what you are listing as styles I would say to go either the SH or ask to get a SM neck with the Stockholm bridge if you want to go P90. It will sound crushing, roaring and freaking alive. Like a grizzly bear on meth that just sat through a marathon of day time telly Clockwork Orange style!

[lyonk55]

" It will sound crushing, roaring and freaking alive. Like a grizzly bear on meth that just sat through a marathon of day time telly Clockwork Orange style!"

Well, that definitely sounds interesting...

Are they alright with making humbucker sized versions of the normal P90s? I do like a bit of brightness in the neck for Cynic-esque cleans, so I'd probably prefer the Supermassive to the Stockholm neck going by the sample clips.

[Kiichi]

Of course you should take that analogy with a grain of salt, but that describes my intial reaction to them. One of these days I will get started on making clips of my PUs too.
P90s just have that SC attack, a distinct growl and agression and that single coil definition on the low strings with the fatness of a HB (or more), which makes them that way.

On the count of the P90 range and them being made in HB and P90 format there was once this short exchange (there were more posts similar to this in a thread about BKP custom PUs).

Does this also mean that HS Pig90's will be history? :(

To which Tim said:

No because 'under the bonnet' HSP90s and P90s are the same - the only difference with HSP90s is I have to grind the bobbin down to accommodate the cover but the wind and magnet design is exactly the same so I'm more than happy to make HSP90 versions of the Pig 90.

So while it is not really an official option you can get it. It is basecally asking nicely and maybe showing that this will make you happier than the normal option (in this case the reduced bottom end, which you have been recommended). The later would certainly not hurt. Phrase it in a way of being open to the BKP recommendations or mayb even directly ask for it with the SM neck thrown in as an option you heard of from a forum member with similar taste or something.
Most of all: Be nice and good things will happen!

This is just possible because as he said it is the same PU, just with a slight adjustment to make it fit in the different cover.
On customs in general he said this, which I find to be a great quote on the subject:

Sometimes what are perceived as 'custom' options ie using different magnets or adjusting winds up or down can be impractical especially given the amount of time I've put into the original voicings. Different just for the sake of being different isn't a valid reason for changing the spec of a pickup however if, after considerable interaction with a customer I feel that their guitar has a very specific design or response outside the specifications of any of the pickups I make I will then adjust a model accordingly. I have to be honest and say that with the range of pickups we offer this is a very rare occurrence.

[Dave Sloven]

I am still searching for a proper home for my MQ neck.

I like the MQ/RR pairing in this SG, although I don't play this style of music really.

Bare Knuckle Pickups 1995 Gibson SG Jon Bishop Demos Rock, Blues and Jazz

[ericsabbath]

sounds more like you have the wrong amp for what you're looking than the wrong pickups
engls are very dense sounding and extremely saurated

those bands use high gain amps, but more "airy" ones
something like a single rectifier or jet city amp would do
maybe even a laney

I thought you had a nailbomb (which is the actual coheed and cambria pickup)

if you decide to go low output, the black dog works well for your description, but I'm not sure how it sounds with an ENGL as it's also a dense sounding pickup
I love the riff raff for all that stuff, but it's a bright pickup

[fhn_lopes]

+1 on the blackdog... maybe a Painkiller would be a nice one too, or a holydiver.. But yes, they are all dense pups... The other ones I've tried out are bright pups so maybe not the best option for you (even though it is strange an ALL MAHOG guitar with rosewood neck to sound bright)

Just a thought, try to mess out with your amp and OD pedal settings , and I mean, tweak every single pot. Gain balance (pedal x amp) is something you should try messing arround first, to try to keep the definition. Presence x treble is a nice one too, try to compensate the brightness without loosing harmonics. There's a few tricks you can try to improve your overall clarity, and that includes pickup height as well. If that doesn't work, try other amps as Eric said.

[darrenw5094]

I had a BBE Green Screamer before, bit harsh and treble heavy, that is why i kept my Maxon 808 screamer.
Maybe the gear is the problem, the ENGL might be not perfect for you. :)

I bought a Mesa 5:50 Express last year and then realised the Mesa tone is not for me.

[dingleberry]

FWIW the express series is not what mesa tones should be measured by

[lyonk55]

sounds more like you have the wrong amp for what you're looking than the wrong pickups
engls are very dense sounding and extremely saurated

those bands use high gain amps, but more "airy" ones
something like a single rectifier or jet city amp would do
maybe even a laney

I thought you had a nailbomb (which is the actual coheed and cambria pickup)

if you decide to go low output, the black dog works well for your description, but I'm not sure how it sounds with an ENGL as it's also a dense sounding pickup
I love the riff raff for all that stuff, but it's a bright pickup

Could be the amp (and I'm kinda interested in changing it: the rack mount Laney Ironheart caught my eye and might leave me with a bit of cash). But the Engl Screamer is a bit different from the Powerball/Fireball/etc: more of a bright rocky sound than the dense metal of the others from what I gather. Being a 1x12 combo might not be helping either. It's more for trying different things than a complete overhaul I'm after, but I'll definitely have a think about amps too.

I actually recorded a quick Opeth song the other day using this setup: I'll post it if anyone's interested once I'm done mixing it.

Moving to Germany for a year soon too, so not in a big rush for a big change like an amp.

And I do have a Nailbomb Eric: lived in this guitar for a while now, but I moved it the other week to my Ibanez and took out my Miracle Man set (which also used to be in this one). Quite happy with it so far I think.