digital recorders

[carlaz]

If you've got an iBook -- even one with a broken screen -- I'd go with GarageBand and a decent audio interface.  For the money, it's tough to beat GarageBand as a computer-based music-making package (GB being basically free :)).  Even if you ditch the Mac for a Windows machine, you've really only spent money on the audio interface, which you should be able to use with your Windows machine as well (and you can buy some other recording software like N-track Studio or the cheap versions of Cubase without breaking the bank).  And even if you stick with a busted-screen iBook, you can always hang a cheapo CRT monitor off it so you can see. :)

But regardless of make, model, or brand, I think it's tough to beat some kind of multitrack recording software on a computer in terms of value for money these days.  You'll get a fairly flexible and expandible solution by going that route, at least in comparison to one of these little digital units.

[sambo]

i spose your right carlaz.... only issue there is quality and maybe effects/features.... i mean ive never used a pc recording program so i wouldnt know how good they really are.... going by your last clip though i see you can get pretty good recordings out of them.... could be an option- but then theres portability- you always need a pc unless your fortunate enough to have a laptop you can take with you....

just out of interest how much was that audio interface you said you got? a tascam did you say?

[maliciousteve]

Hey Sambo. I got my Zoom through. I won't be writing anything yet as i need to get a few things. Card Reader and Headphones. Once you've transfered files to the pc, how to do change the format to Wav. or Mp3?

[Dakine]

Steve,
which model did you end up going with?

This is a good site it seems;

http://ps02_solutions.tripod.com/

Nick

[carlaz]

i spose your right carlaz.... only issue there is quality and maybe effects/features.... i mean ive never used a pc recording program so i wouldnt know how good they really are.... going by your last clip though i see you can get pretty good recordings out of them.... could be an option-

GB is pretty full featured in terms of effects, software instruments, and extras like its loop library.  Cubase SE is 99 quid and pretty powerful for the home user -- not sure what sort of effects and stuff are included with it, but there are lots of good, free VST plugins for PCs that can be stuck right on in there.   The other PC software I know people using is n-Track Studio is USD 50 and presumably more basic than Cubase, but you can use free VST plugins with it, too.

Obviously you can also use any software or hardware you have now or buy in the future: amps, amp modellers, drum machines, microphones, keyboards, whatever.  For example, in theory I could use GB's software amp models, third-party software amp models, external amp model units (like a POD), mic up an real amp, or run a cable from a real amp through an attenuator or something.  And I can colloborate with anyone who sends me the likes of a WAV or even MIDI file.

but then theres portability- you always need a pc unless your fortunate enough to have a laptop you can take with you....

Well, if you're looking for a proper mobile recoreding studio, that's a different issue! :)  Though I suppose these days, you can get a new Windows laptop for GBP 500 or less.  Even a new iBook is only GBP 700.

But I'm a hobbyist, not a pro :) and though I've got a laptop, I haven't bothered recording with it except at home. If I can't record directly with other people in-house, they can always record something on their home computer and send me the files. And for playing live gigs, I just want an amp, not a digital recorder.  Nothing that can be damaged by having beer spilled on it, anyway. :)

just out of interest how much was that audio interface you said you got? a tascam did you say?

The Tascam I have lists for GBP 145 in Digital Village, though if I were buying now, I'd get the Line6 Toneport UX1 (GBP 85) or slightly sexier UX2 (GBP 135), since both those come with a pile of useful software amp models. evilBay could be a friend here ....

Ultimately, I just think the little recording units offer too little for their price.  Yes, they are small and convenient -- that's their thing.  But I think they are very easy to outgrow.  If you want to do lots of recording, even as just a mildly serious home-hobbyist, a computer-based solution offers better "bang for the buck", IMO.  

I mean, I had a computer anyway, so the audio interface was a relatively cheap investment to extract a lot of potential.  My laptop has more studio power than the Beatles had, and I'm forced to blame my failure to sell a bazillion albums on my sucky playing and my sucky audio engineering skills :) rather than the recording technology at my disposal.

[maliciousteve]

Steve,
which model did you end up going with?

This is a good site it seems;

http://ps02_solutions.tripod.com/

Nick

I ended up getting the MRS-8. Just because it had more tracks and drum pads.

[Dakine]

Cool

look forward to hearing some clips.

Darned Sam got me thinking lol.
Looking at Zoom PS-04, Korg PRX4 and Korg D4. If I can get one cheap.

[sambo]

yer spose your right carlaz...

it all really depends on personal circumstances in the end.

nice one steve! definately looking forward to clips. when it comes to changing the format- just download a converter- the one i have is called "cool MP3 converter"  8)  lol but any one will do. another great thing to download is the card manager- it makes it REALLY simple to just plug the card reader in- select the project/song and then listen to it- adjust volume, adjust panning and save the tracks as a complete song. then you find that song whereever you saved it and convert it in the aforementioned converter.

[maliciousteve]

Cool, that sounds simply enough. I'm just reading through the manual and learning how to use it properly. So far i've just been listening to beats already made, they're pretty cool. The clean sounds are pretty good too. But i'll be using my ADA MP-1 for all the distortion. Can't wait to start recording.

[sambo]

yer the distortion are the sounds which really need tweaking if you were gonna use the in-built effects- but like you said the cleans are cool- try effect number 11- its a compressor- sounds wicked IMO.

also, interesting point, sometimes theres some background fuzz/hum on certain effects (that numebr 11 being one of them) but when you record and play it back all the noise is gone.

ive never really looked much into drums on there cause my drummer now has an electronic drum kit for our band recordings- but they sound pretty damn good. to start recording real quick just go -

-system
-project
-new
-grade HF or something similar (the first option that comes up anyway)


then a blank screen will come up with a bit of info at the tom maybe.

two key things that puzzled me at first- sometimes it'll appear that no sound is going into the zoom when your playing- check that the little sensitivity knob next to the input jack isnt turned all the way down- it has to be up jsut a little for any sound to come through. and also, (this ones more obvious) make sure you select the track you wanna record by clicking the little circular button above the respective slider before you record- theres nothing worse than thinking youve just recorded a whole song then discovering it didnt actually record anything!!!

good luck with it.... have fun...

P.S the tuner (which is actually really quite good) can be found by pressing-

-effect-
- tuner/bypass

[carlaz]

it all really depends on personal circumstances in the end.

Well, yeah. :)  That's why BKP make a lotta different pickups instead of just one, after all :)

Mind you, some of those Zoom MRS models start getting up towards being solid little DAWs.  And I'll take physical faders and twiddly knobs over GUI faders and knobs any day!  (I'd get a a little USB control surface to use with GB, like the iControl, if I had any cash! :))

Still, I would not thrilled about paying that much for a tiny little editing screen and (as far as I can tell) not much in the way of interface to any computer one happened to have lying about. .  This is exactly the problem I have with my Roland VS-1680, which was an amazing piece of kit when it came out about 10 years ago, but doesn't talk to other devices terribly well and has a dinky little screen.  Otherwise, it's beautiful! :)

[Dakine]

Way I am looking at it.
All I originally wanted was a metronome type device.
Then heard about these things.

MRS-8 and above look quite competant for use and recording. The smaller units like Korg PXR4 and Zoom PS-02/04 are more for "notebook sctrachings/ideas" that is to take with you and jot down ideas with. They are small,portable and do the job. There is ALOT built into them (far to much for their diminitive size to easily display) so alot of tweaking and hidden menu finding will be involved.
For stuff like posting clips here or elsewhere I am sure that all the units will/are more than adaquite.
Again, ya pay ya money and take ya choice.

For me, if I can get a used unit for about the same as was looking at a good metronome/beat unit, then may as well buy one to "noodle around with", until I move and get a PC with better processing power/memory anyway.

I am sure computers are the best way to go but you really need a well spec'd one and good software. Actually it's probably the best idea to buy a computer and have it dedicated to recording if this is what you are serious about. All depends on how far ya wanna go, as always :)

[Dakine]

Is'nt it true also, that over past several years, manufacturers (empowered by consumers) have been producing products smaller and smaller to the result of being almost un-useable due to their miniturisation.
Take cellphones for example (although we are still woefully behind here in US). They got to almost postage stamp size when people finally realised that this was abit silly and un-useable. There is an optimum size for anything when dealing with people, due to eyesight/physical size, but the trend was to get as small as possible for awhile.
Maybe this is a driving factor in the diminitive size of some of these recorders.

[sambo]

yer your completely right on size nick, and carlaz your spot on about screen size. having said that, the ps-04 is really quite simple and easy to use despite the screen size being reletively small... i had a few doubts at first but the operation is pretty basic and the dual-purpose buttons arent complicated unless you make them really. the only time i think it would get too complicated... is if you were trying to use its full capabilities- full drum programming+bass programming- guitars with effects and mastering effects- tracks being turned into stereo e.t.c e.t.c. but for sketching and making clips like nick said its perfect....

oh and despite some things being too small... i lvoe the fact that my ps-04 really is pocket-sized... i can actually walk around with it in my pocket without people thinking im glad to see them...

[Dakine]

was having ALOT of trouble finding a clip on Sambo's qouted Zoom forum that impressed me on the 02/04 or Mrs.
Just found a cover of 20th Century Boy done ALL on a PS-04, now am impressed enough with that little bitty box of tricks. Very fun thing it seems!