Bogner XTC Questions

[Toe-Knee]

I'm not a fan of Uberschalls either (for modern high gain the diezels, engls, and fryettes are my favorites).  Anyway I ended up buying the SLO for $2400 USD and it sounds phenomenal.  I think I like it for leads even more than the mark iv and my mark v.  It feels very fluid for leads.  It is plenty raw and aggressive, but still has a smoothness to it, which I can't seem to dial out, but for now I'll deal with it.  That smoothness is probably why its so wonderful for soloing.  The SLO is also one of my favorite amps for single note riffage.

I'm going to sell my 101B, but I'm still very curious about the 20th Anniversary Ecstasy and will definitely check it out if I get a chance.

Also, I noticed that the clean channel (which is decent but not great) seems to be much lower in volume than the crunch and lead mode.  Is this normal?     

Good choice on the SLO! Regarding the smoothness that can easily be adressed by swapping the first two preamp valves for tung sol 12ax7 & a JJ Ecc832. I believe the SLO now comes stock with EHX 12ax7 and sovtek 5881 in the power amp (these power valves really let the amp down imho)

Regarding the clean volume it is normal that its significantly lower due to the clean and crunch being the same channel the clean is just the crunch padded down. Originally the SLO just had the crunch & lead.

[braintheory]

Good choice on the SLO! Regarding the smoothness that can easily be adressed by swapping the first two preamp valves for tung sol 12ax7 & a JJ Ecc832. I believe the SLO now comes stock with EHX 12ax7 and sovtek 5881 in the power amp (these power valves really let the amp down imho)

Regarding the clean volume it is normal that its significantly lower due to the clean and crunch being the same channel the clean is just the crunch padded down. Originally the SLO just had the crunch & lead.

Thanks for the advice.  The SLO I bought has serial number: 001367 and there is also a sticker on the top part of the tolex and the footswitch that says "#109" (I wonder if this means this was 109th SLO made, or maybe because of the serial number it could be the 1367th?) and next to the standby switch there's a sticker with the number 3 on it.  Apparently this amp used to belong to the band No Doubt and I think the guy who sold it to me kept those stickers as evidence.  So, obviously I have no idea what year my SLO is from, and therefore no idea what tubes are in the amp, but I'll try to check later.  The amp sounds great as is, but if changing tubes can make my SLO sound even better and make it a bit edgier, I'll try to get around to it in the future.  In the mean time I'll keep playing this monster amp  :lol:  Based on this information does anyone have an idea what year this amp is from and what tubes it could have?  Also, what powertubes would you recommend instead of the sovtek's (assuming that's what it has now)?

[Toe-Knee]

Good choice on the SLO! Regarding the smoothness that can easily be adressed by swapping the first two preamp valves for tung sol 12ax7 & a JJ Ecc832. I believe the SLO now comes stock with EHX 12ax7 and sovtek 5881 in the power amp (these power valves really let the amp down imho)

Regarding the clean volume it is normal that its significantly lower due to the clean and crunch being the same channel the clean is just the crunch padded down. Originally the SLO just had the crunch & lead.

Thanks for the advice.  The SLO I bought has serial number: 001367 and there is also a sticker on the top part of the tolex and the footswitch that says "#109" (I wonder if this means this was 109th SLO made, or maybe because of the serial number it could be the 1367th?) and next to the standby switch there's a sticker with the number 3 on it.  Apparently this amp used to belong to the band No Doubt and I think the guy who sold it to me kept those stickers as evidence.  So, obviously I have no idea what year my SLO is from, and therefore no idea what tubes are in the amp, but I'll try to check later.  The amp sounds great as is, but if changing tubes can make my SLO sound even better and make it a bit edgier, I'll try to get around to it in the future.  In the mean time I'll keep playing this monster amp  :lol:  Based on this information does anyone have an idea what year this amp is from and what tubes it could have?

I'm not sure to be honest but a quick email to Soldano will give you the into that you need. If you want it even edgier and dont mind soldering in such an expensive amp PM me I have some good mods :D

[braintheory]

Would these mods that make the SLO edgier compromise it liquidy lead tone?

[tekbow]

Phone Soldano, Mike is a very approachable guy, and you'll either get him or Bill Sundt (Right Hand Dude) on the phone. They keep good records and will be able to tell you your amps history. Ask them about the factory mods as well and see if anything will help.

But i'll say this, Mikes preferred version of the SLO is bone stock. not even an FX loop. For all the mods they offer, he'll tell you it sounds best with nothing in it.

There's something about that No Doubt SLO though.. sure i saw it on ebay or it was mentioned on the Soldano Forum a while back..

[Twinfan]

Also, I noticed that the clean channel (which is decent but not great) seems to be much lower in volume than the crunch and lead mode.  Is this normal?     

It is if you're using the Master Volume and the amp is running fairly low.

[Toe-Knee]

Also, I noticed that the clean channel (which is decent but not great) seems to be much lower in volume than the crunch and lead mode.  Is this normal?     

It is if you're using the Master Volume and the amp is running fairly low.

It is full stop. Each channel has its own master volume. It's just the nature of the beast with the clean & crunch being the exact same channel.

[Toe-Knee]

Would these mods that make the SLO edgier compromise it liquidy lead tone?

Nope. If anything it will make it more fluid.

There are a few different approaches that you can take with it all relatively simple.

[braintheory]

Would these mods that make the SLO edgier compromise it liquidy lead tone?

Nope. If anything it will make it more fluid.

There are a few different approaches that you can take with it all relatively simple.

How could it be more fluid and more edgy at the same time?

[Toe-Knee]

Would these mods that make the SLO edgier compromise it liquidy lead tone?

Nope. If anything it will make it more fluid.

There are a few different approaches that you can take with it all relatively simple.

How could it be more fluid and more edgy at the same time?

It's hard to explain. It makes the gain structure more aggressive but legato and general lead work flows better due to the slight variation in the voicing. The aggressiveness is due to raising the lower mids and gain a tiny bit. The tiny bit of extra gain also makes leadwork more fluid.

[braintheory]

Would these mods that make the SLO edgier compromise it liquidy lead tone?

Nope. If anything it will make it more fluid.

There are a few different approaches that you can take with it all relatively simple.

How could it be more fluid and more edgy at the same time?

It's hard to explain. It makes the gain structure more aggressive but legato and general lead work flows better due to the slight variation in the voicing. The aggressiveness is due to raising the lower mids and gain a tiny bit. The tiny bit of extra gain also makes leadwork more fluid.

But my SLO already has more than enough gain and I don't think it needs more low-mids (or lows).  Also, I don't want to do anything that will add more compression to the SLO. 

Also, in case anyone is curious I asked Soldano about my amp and it's from the year 2000, no mods (but it does have an fx loop), and sovtek 5881 and chinese preamp tubes of some sort.

[Dmoney]

I wonder if those are the ORIGINAL 5881's from 2000?
I don't mind those valves, but lots of people use JJ 6L6GC. I've had good results with the TungSol 7581 reissue, although I won't be getting them again since TAD (Tube Amp Doctor) are the only place that seem to stock them here and they are complete scumbag ripoff merchants. The other nice choice is KT66's, but if you go that route it's best getting some nice ones like the Gold Lion's, rather than JJ's which seem to be 6L6's in a KT66 bottle. Groove Tubes 6L6GE might be another option.

The Sovtek button base 5881 is a reliable valve due to a high maximum plate voltage rating (although it's hard to find a spec sheet).

Original 7581A valves might give you a bit more headroom in the power stage, but those are expensive now and I've never read mention of them being used. Same deal with 6N3C-E's.

Depends on what you're after. They don't make as much of a difference as changing speakers but they make a little difference and rolling valves costs a lot less. Anything will probably make a big difference if you valves in there at the moment are 13 years old, both in the preamp and power amp.

What Tony says about the level of the channel's is also correct. It's also normal to get some channel bleed from the clean channel into the gain channel, although it's usually swamped. It's also out of phase with the lead channel I think. Anyway, there is a argument that it contributes to the sound of the SLO lead channel.

[braintheory]

I don't know whether they are the original tubes or not, but I checked and they definitely are Sovtek 5881's.

[Dmoney]

If it was a touring amp or even slightly looked after then the 5881's probably got swapped with like for like.

Soldano use those valves because they are tough. Likewise with their choice to go with JJ ECC83S'. Those are a tough preamp valve, mechanically sturdy and not prone to going harmonic. Some people might think that extra reliability is worth the slight trade off in tone.

I like to use JJ ECC83S with a Tungsram 12AX7 in V1, which to me makes the amp a bit more aggressive. My SLO currently has TungSol 7581's in the power section, but I might try KT66's next time. I've used JJ 6L6GC's with good results in a bunch of amps but they recently seem to be less reliable. I don't mind the stock 5881WGC's though.

It's hard to know what to recommend. I usually just swap thing around every so often and stick with what I like. I don't think of it in terms of "This sounds more richly 3D and harmonic in the low organic overtonal touch sensitive area extended bandwidth"... If something sounds better I just go with it. I might change my mind a few months down the line. I chose the Tungsram over a Mullard, Brimar, RFT, Philips 5751, Sovtek 5751, JJ ECC83S, JJ ECC803S, some EHX valves, and some long plate Sovteks, and a Ruby 12AX7. You don't have to go NOS to find nice sounding valves in my opinion.

[tekbow]

Funny that we should mention headroom in an SLO, because i was looking at an interview with Mike Soldano a couple days ago and he was talking about how he has always designed his powerstages to be as "Hifi" as possible. Basically all the breakup/grit comes from the preamp. possibly the reason they get compared to Hiwatts a lot.

This isn't to say that the amp doesn't "open up" past a certain point on the master volume.

The only exception to this (he says) is the new HR25 (which i want). It was inspired by.. You know what, here's the interview, it's actually really entertaining, there's some anecodotes about EVH about halfway through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBIcicqIfCM