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Author Topic: singing + playing?  (Read 10600 times)

badgermark

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singing + playing?
« on: March 06, 2006, 06:23:51 PM »
sorry if this is off topic or anything, i'll happily lock and let it drift to the unknown depths of ze forum...


anyway! got a band practice with a new set of people on wednesday and was wondering if anyone here sings/guitars in a band? i have a decent voice but my experience with mics has been terrible. anyone got any tips or hints to stop me screwing up? i KNOW i can sing the songs perfectly with an acoustic and no mic, but as soon as i step up im lost...

any advice would be GREAT, and if no-one can help then im done for...
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indysmith

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singing + playing?
« Reply #1 on: March 06, 2006, 08:56:55 PM »
sing and play guitar at the same time? like i can do that :roll:
I really can't, lol - it sucks
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big steve

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« Reply #2 on: March 06, 2006, 09:00:48 PM »
i started off exactly the same - vocal cords, chords, can't co-ordinate! however with a bit of confidence and practice i would say i am at reasonable sing-song standard, no complicated fingerpicking while singing or anything, but i can play and sing at the same time.

to be honest, it came pretty slowly, i would take a song with simple chords, easy strumming pattern/rhythm and well within your vocal range, and just stick at it. play the chords over and over until you know the song inside out. then just go for it really, it takes time but if i was able to do it, anyone can!

good luck. FWIW, i started with the nirvana cover "where did you sleep last night"
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38thBeatle

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singing + playing?
« Reply #3 on: March 06, 2006, 09:07:00 PM »
mic technique, now there is a thing. Assuming you have a directional mic ( Sure SM58 for example), you have to get fairly close otherwise you lose the power and bottom end. If you have a song with lots of dynamics, it is best to come back a tad from the mic on the really loud bits. Get the mic in a comfortable position so that you dont have to strain to sing into it. Some people think it looks cool to stretch their neck ( Lemmy ,  Liam Gallagher )but it is a bugger on the throat. I always try to get it so that the mic is the same level as my mouth and that I can relax when singing into it. Try not to look down at your guitar ( learn the songs really really well) Best thing is just to practice at home standing up behind a mic as if on stage- it is not anything like as hard as learning guitar. I am sure that others will chime in.
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indysmith

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« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2006, 09:10:17 PM »
Quote from: big steve
i started off exactly the same - vocal cords, chords, can't co-ordinate! however with a bit of confidence and practice i would say i am at reasonable sing-song standard, no complicated fingerpicking while singing or anything, but i can play and sing at the same time.

to be honest, it came pretty slowly, i would take a song with simple chords, easy strumming pattern/rhythm and well within your vocal range, and just stick at it. play the chords over and over until you know the song inside out. then just go for it really, it takes time but if i was able to do it, anyone can!

good luck. FWIW, i started with the nirvana cover "where did you sleep last night"

Thanks man - i'll give that song a go, hehe. I suck at singing and i suck at playing, but i'm determined to make this work ,hawhaw
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38thBeatle

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« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2006, 09:20:27 PM »
I am really a bass player and one of the earliest challenges I set myself  in my ealy days was to sing and play "All My Loving" ( The Beatles for you younger guys  :lol: ) and I just worked and worked at it and I found that by almost switching off the thought process, it seemed to make it easier. It becomes automatic- but not so that it becomes sterile and lifeless. Singing and playing guitar is easy by comparison to me now and i don't mean that to sound arrogant. I mean it comes with practice and hard work in the first instance.
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badgermark

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« Reply #6 on: March 06, 2006, 09:57:02 PM »
so many replys and only the one guy understood me... yes i can play and sing a the same time, its just mic technique i need to work on me thinks. thanks for the help guys.

and the whole mic up thing, it puts strain on the vocal chords when you look up, so high notes are harder to hit, not easier  :wink:
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Neemo

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« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2006, 10:03:19 PM »
I play lead guitar and sing. It was very weird but I started off easy, like just playing root-fifth chords and focusing on keeping the pitch of my voice correct. When I sing I tend to have a slight rasp in my voice so you can't notice if there's a short deviation of pitch. I've been singing for about a year now and I can play simple riffs and sing even with a clean voice quite effortlessly now.

I think there's no right or wrong way to learn it. Just keep at it and progress will come, I'm sure.

edit: Oh and gear-wise, you should really buy a compressor for the vocals. It evens the volume differences when you move closer and further back from the mic. Especially for live situations.
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indysmith

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« Reply #8 on: March 06, 2006, 10:09:21 PM »
Quote from: badgermark
so many replys and only the one guy understood me...

haha actually i think they all did, i just hijacked ur thread man, sorry!!! >.<
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Muttley

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Re: singing + playing?
« Reply #9 on: March 07, 2006, 12:21:40 AM »
Quote from: badgermark
sorry if this is off topic or anything, i'll happily lock and let it drift to the unknown depths of ze forum...


anyway! got a band practice with a new set of people on wednesday and was wondering if anyone here sings/guitars in a band? i have a decent voice but my experience with mics has been terrible. anyone got any tips or hints to stop me screwing up? i KNOW i can sing the songs perfectly with an acoustic and no mic, but as soon as i step up im lost...

any advice would be GREAT, and if no-one can help then im done for...


I've sung and played for years now, and apart from having to dumb down my live playing a bit to make it easier to concentrate on the vocals (I let the other guitarist do the twiddly bits), the real key is getting aquainted with your microphone.  You need to learn it's strengths and weaknesses so you can adjust your delivery accordingly.  Whether it's moving closer into the mic for quiet vocal parts, moving away slightly when you're singing louder stuff, etc.

Practice with just you and the mic hooked up to a PA.  Sing stuff into the mic and practice moving away/towards the mic, adjusting your singing level accordingly to try and maintain a similar PA level throughout.

The other thing with PAs is that you're suddenly hearing yourself differently.  Usually when you hear your own voice, it's affected by vibrations in your head as you speak.  With a PA blasting your voice back at you, the way you hear yourself changes (do you hate your voice on tape when you've heard it too?  Most people do).  So you need to get used to that too.

Other than that?  Practice, practice, practice.  :)

HTH

Muttley
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jt

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« Reply #10 on: March 07, 2006, 01:35:16 AM »
:D Practice talking into the mic 1st. Say hello to the people your with & use your ears. You should notice how close you need to be inorder to have the mic pick you up correctly. When going for high notes Or power notes back off of the mic  by 6 inch`s this stops your voice from over powering the mic. If you watch videos of old cronners, Bing Crosby, Neil Diamond,  Frank Sinatra etc you`ll notice them use this technique all the time.

Don`t over saturate your voice with Reverb Or Delay as this can make you sound really awfull. It can also create kick back on the mic which allways gives away amateurs.

Don`t try to shout down the thing. Remember it`s a microphone it`ll pick up your voice so don`t attempt to bust a gut to be heard. Otherwise i`m afraid it`s a case of practice.

Playing Bass & singing is beyond any shadow of a doubt the most difficult thing to do. Playing a guitar & singing is P**s Easy in comparison. Respects to`ya 38th !!!

 :D  8)
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badgermark

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« Reply #11 on: March 07, 2006, 07:37:00 AM »
i can nail tricky twiddly bits and sing no problem, just the damn mic. i tend not to be able to hear myself through monitors or the PA, so end up shouting and buggering up my throat...

thanks a lot guys, i'll let you all know how it goes on wednesday (plus i get to practice my james hetfield impression, gonna try whiskey in the jar  :wink: )
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mikeluke

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singing + playing?
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2006, 09:12:17 AM »
This might be an obvious question - is the band too loud? If you have the monitor in the right place, the PA set right and a reasonable mic then you shouldn't have to shout just to make yourself heard. Another suggestion would be to get a couple of singing lessons - really helps with mic positioning, breathing and also to understand if the range that you are trying to sing is actually one that your voice can cope with.  You may then find that you have to sing the song a little differently to allow you voice to cope.

Failing that - take up the drums! :P

Mike
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carlaz

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« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2006, 10:14:21 AM »
I used to be totally unable to sing and play at the same time and thought it would just always be impossible for me.  But now I can kinda of do it a bit, to the point where I'm sure I could get it going fine if I worked at it.  I don't actually sing in the band I play in now (well, I've done occasional backing vox), but I always try to practice by mouthing the words.  Little by little ....
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sambo

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« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2006, 06:52:22 PM »
yer just realised- how is singing n playng anything to do with guitars, amps or effects??? lol anyway....

dont think this was exactl what you were talking about but this cold help you anyways....

http://www.sweetw@ter.com/feature/microphones/miking101.php
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