Need advice on power/prog pickups

[bepcepkop]

Hi there, new member here, I have an Ibanez S550 on the way and have been searching all over for what pickups to upgrade to and have finaly come to the conlusion I would be wise to try out some Bare Knuckles for the first time.

The guitar has mahogany body, maple neck, rosewood fretboard, S series (sabre) and HSH config. The amp setup is just an 11Rack but soon I will be pairing it with a Laney Ironheart Studio.

Mainly I will be playing and recording power metal and some other experimental stuff, but the sound and style I am going for is bands like late 90s era Stratovarius, Gamma Ray, Insania Stockholm, early Sonata Arctica, Wizard and I absolutely love the tone on Wintersuns first album, I know he used a stock Tokai tele and a Dinky through a Triaxis

But you get the picture, I am after a tone that is really tight for fast palm muted riffing, not really too modern sounding or death metally ( but perhaps could be capable if I crank everything), really clear and sharp with no mud. and capable of good cleaner tones for proggy stuff with effects.

From the clips Ive heard and what people hve said the Holydiver seems to be the logical choice

[ericsabbath]

painkiller
maybe a rebel yell if you want more versatility

[bepcepkop]

Just incase some of you aren't familiar with the sound of those bands the kind of sound I am after here are some clips... Also I will need a middle PU that can work well with the bridge and neck in 2 and 4 position on a 5 way switch and add some versatility by itself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzvY77AmLtw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r81qJg_Ss9I

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IIm4yfhlKUQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q90um2ZGQDk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lc4WFzl-6Xs

hope they all work ! Thanks.

[bepcepkop]

The Rebel Yell did sound quite nice but seemed like it may lack a little balls compared to something like the Holydiver, Cold Sweat or Nailbomb... maybe the Emerald or VH II...
Just not sure :/

[ericsabbath]

all those songs sounded more like a painkiller job
the holy diver isn't that dry
the cold sweat could work quite well, but sounds a little bassier on rhythms and more scooped on leads
the nailbomb is a bit darker voiced and quite meaty... could work with a boss sd-1 or something similar
the rebel yell has all the voicing character needed, just isn't as hot as the others (still close enough to the holy diver)

[bepcepkop]

Thanks for the advice, I completely overlooked the painkiller when I read it was for djent/downtuned style, but I guess that would keep things tight.

The Rebel Yell does sound from the clip very much like what I might need. Going from the stock INF PUs to BKPs is going to be a huge improvement no matter which ones I pick really.

[Alex]

But you get the picture, I am after a tone that is really tight for fast palm muted riffing, not really too modern sounding or death metally ( but perhaps could be capable if I crank everything), really clear and sharp with no mud. and capable of good cleaner tones for proggy stuff with effects.

From the clips Ive heard and what people hve said the Holydiver seems to be the logical choice

While the Holy Diver would work, I would give it the edge over the Nailbomb if you were looking for more 80s style metal sounds. I think the Nailbomb is a more suited choice. Alnico, it is already very tight and your amp is perfect for it. For me the Nailbomb is the most progressive metal-pickup I've played so far; it has that very chunky Petrucci-style midrange thump, tight bottom and a clear and articulate top end. It still sounds organic and not over the top as some ceramic pickups do.

[Slartibartfarst42]

While the Holydiver is my favourite pickup, my first thought for you was an A-Bomb in the bridge. It's very tight and very aggressive. If you'd like it toned down a bit, go for a Rebel Yell.

For the neck, try a Cold Sweat if you put an A-Bomb in the bridge or a Rebel Yell if you also use a RY in the bridge. Either way, try a Trilogy Suite in the middle.

[bepcepkop]

Once again, thanks for the replies !  :lol:

I am not so good at explaining the sound I am after, I guess the tone of 80's speed/power like Helloween and Gamma Ray but with the tightness and clarity of the more modern sound, but that also comes down to my recording and mixing skills too.

My impression of the Holydiver is that if you ran it through a high gain setup you would get a saturated metal tone but if rolled back on the pot and amp it would become more 80s, tighter and be somewhere in the middle of where I want to be.. and also clean up real nice?

I imagine the Painkiller to be purely a modern metal sound as well as the Nailbomb to a lesser extent more suited to death and thrash?

and the Cold Sweat and to a lesser extent, Rebel Yell perhaps too bright for the Ibanez S shape being so thin even though its mahogany, or perhaps the thinness doesnt matter so much that they would be suited for the mahogany body?

Sorry if I am not making so much sense  :?

It's great to have so many good choices but also frustrating at the same time !

[bepcepkop]

I should also mention that the Ibanez S is replacing a Schecter Blackjack with active blackouts that are totally not for me, good for death metal, etc, but really not the sound I need for power metal, too much overkill and dark.

[ericsabbath]

the painkiller was modeled after the judas priest's album tones
it just happens to work great for more modern stuff as well
most of the pickups used these days in modern metal are the same the hard rock and metal guys already used back in the 80's and 90's, so there's no suprise in that (I'm talking pickups like the duncan jb, distortion, custom, invader, dimarzio x2n, super distortion, emg 81)

I think you can benefit from the tighter and middier tones of the painkiller or rebel yell better than the deeper and darker tone of the nailbomb, but the nailbomb should work anyway

[bepcepkop]

Yeah when researching I have actually been surprised at some of the pickups used on recordings these days actually be 20 or so years old, showing that alot of the modern day sound comes from production.

I am also thinking to the future and considering a ESP/LTD Elite-1 with Alder body and Maple neck/fretboard which would solely be for progressive/experimental uses. So if I got a Holy Diver and thought it too dark, i could just swap into the Elite and grab a couple of single coils. I have read many people saying that the thin characteristic of the S series Ibanez overbears the fact it is mahogany making it sound rather thinner/brighter for a mahogany guitar which is why I am just not sure what to go with.

I don't want it to sound extremely bright but if I get a darker pickup to compensate for the body I don't want to go too far..  :shock:

I really like the idea of the Holydiver in the neck position though or perhaps the Emerald.. I do like thicker deeper leads. but for the bridge I am stuck between the RY, NB and PK...

[bepcepkop]

Of all the clips I have listened to I seem to prefer the Nailbomb to the Painkiller for rhythm, The RY as you stated has the correct voicing for what I am after but is it as tight for fast palm muted riffing?

[Dave Sloven]

If you haven't read the review collection thread I'd suggest going there and reading the reviews for the Rebel Yell.  There are four reviews - some of them comparison reviews - and all give great descriptions and will really make your mouth water for some RYs.

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30219.0

[Kiichi]

Of all the clips I have listened to I seem to prefer the Nailbomb to the Painkiller for rhythm, The RY as you stated has the correct voicing for what I am after but is it as tight for fast palm muted riffing?

The RY sure is pretty darn tight. I am still blown away how tight it is for an alnico pub. Give a quick listen to Red Seas Fire, the band of forum member and moderator Nolly (who also played all the BKP demos), that is the RY bridge he playes there.

The RY generally I very versatile, you can imho easily go from blues rock to modern metal and everything in between. The sound is modern, but there is always a nice vintage throwback in there, so you really feel at home. The sound is full of harmonics and there is a nice upper mid spike making it scream and rock the sh*t outa anything. That spike together with the cutting prominent, but not shrill, high end makes for a lot of cut.
The bottom end is tight and present, not lacking, but just not really big or anything. The PU does not sound thin to me. Generally it just rocks and screams like no other I have had.

Also it is very tunable as height changes really do a number on this PU especially. Half a screw turn felt like it too my bass response from something I would like for pop punk to something I would like for metal. Factor in to that that you can also change the pole piece height and you got a lot of options to perfect your tone if you got a RY and like the basic idea it brings.

Oh and yeah, I got mine in a Ibby S series. My other axes have a Stockholm bridge and a Crawler bridge, both have a big and deep bottom end. The RY naturally sounds the brightest out of the 3, but not thin and to be fair I also like it to be that bright and agressive, I could have easily set it to be more in line with the others. Side by side you feel a lot more agression and just rock screaming out of it, where as the other two do more roaring.



Damn I really gotta get around to writing my RY review, I have written these kind of 3/4 reviews too often...