Hum from pedals, even with a Voodoo Lab Pedal Power 2+

[Zaned]

Hi!

I have a weird problem. I have all the pedals in my pedalboard powered with the Voodoo lab pedal power 2+. Buffer, tuner, wah, overdrive and chorus are before the preamp, and then I have a delay in the fx loop.

The problem is with the wah (a Fulltone Clyde) and the delay (Boss DD-20). If I engage the wah, it will add some hiss. Not much, but some of course. It's true bypass, so when it's off, it's off.

But the trouble starts when I have the wah engaged AND turn on the DD-20. No cables attached, just turn it on with power from the Voodoo Lab PP2+. That's when the wah starts to add some serious hissing noise. Saying again, the only shared connection between the pedals is the power supply. No cables between them by any means, at this point the only cable going to the DD-20 is the power cable from the power supply.

I haven't yet had enough time to completely troubleshoot it, but I did test with a stock crybaby wah in the same spot. It too got some added hiss from the DD-20, but not much. I briefly tested with a Boss DD-7 in the same spot as the DD-20, and it did nothing to add to the hiss. I've also tested other pedals on that same spot, they don't add hiss.

So I've come to the conclusion that something happens because the DD-20 draws more current, or it has some sort of grounding problem. Why one of the wahs is more severely affected by this (and the more expensive one, for $%&#s sake) than the other.

Or something happens because the DD-20 draws more current. Which would lead me to believe that there's something wrong with the PP2+. I do have the pedal powered from the one of the two outlets that gives more current. 

Any ideas? Much appreciated..

-Zaned

[Alex]

Even with isolated pedal power sources I've experienced similar things. In my case it is a delay and a chorus pedal, which add noise when they are both engaged at the same time.

You can try pinpoining the problems with batteries and see if it is one pedal that's the cause. At this stage I wouldn't rule out any third pedal, maybe being partly responsible for the strange interaction (such as an overdrive or tuning pedal).

[Zaned]

Thanks!

Except for the buffer (a clean/treble booster at the same time), all the pedals before the preamp are true bypass, so they shouldn't do that. But I will unplug the power cables from them and also remove the buffer pedal from the equation. I'll also try with batteries.

-Zaned

[Brow]

This is only a suggestion but sometimes powering effects infront and in the FX loop of an amp from the same power supply can cause issues.

I won't pretend to know why this is the case, but I've come across it a few times whilst helping people troubleshoot odd noises and hums etc in their setups.

[JimmyMoorby]

This is only a suggestion but sometimes powering effects infront and in the FX loop of an amp from the same power supply can cause issues.

I won't pretend to know why this is the case, but I've come across it a few times whilst helping people troubleshoot odd noises and hums etc in their setups.

I'd agree with this but you could also consider a noise gate a boss ns2 or an isp decimator g string would sort it out using the 4 cable method.  You can pick up the ns2 really cheap off of flea bay too.  I've always had a problem with feedback and noise and doing this helps a lot.

I'd love to know which is meant to be the best power supply for multiple pedals.  I currently use diago it seems pretty good but there isnt too much info out there on whats the best i.e the least noisy.

If you wanted to sort this out perfectly id look into separate power supplies AND a noise gate.

[tekbow]

This is only a suggestion but sometimes powering effects infront and in the FX loop of an amp from the same power supply can cause issues.

I won't pretend to know why this is the case, but I've come across it a few times whilst helping people troubleshoot odd noises and hums etc in their setups.

+2 not even form the same power supply (a pedal power) but the same strip (i.e a 4 plug adapter into your wall socket that the amp and pedal power are plugged into). I believe it's something to do with ground loops.

[Zaned]

Found it.

It was the wah catching the disturbance from the PP2+. Clearly, that field got stronger when powering the DD-20, which requires more current. With smaller pedals, there wasn't really much additional noise, if any. I found this when I powered the wah with a battery and it still got a lot more noise when the dd-20 was turned on  :)

The outputs on the PP2+ are isolated (no ground loops there), but shielding against disturbance like that clearly isn't as good as I'd hope it to be. However, this is my first negative experience with the PP2+; it's really good and reliable. But I do wonder if something like the burkey flatliner would be different in this regard.

I haven't had this pedalboard (a pedaltrain-jr) for long, my previous one was a lot bigger, and the wah was a good distance away from the power supply. I don't have space on the board for a noise gate, so I either have to find a way to shield the wah (or the supply!), or detach it from the board. The latter wouldn't actually be too bad, I like to have this board with me also on the acoustic thing, but don't really want the wah there.

.
..
...and it would allow me to insert two new pedals there  :lol: Conveniently, it's saturday tomorrow and I have a few music stores just a few miles away. Whippee!

Thanks to everybody for helping!

-Zaned

[Dave Sloven]

It seems like the main reason pedals have batteries - especially the ISP Decimator G-String, which eats them in twenty minutes - is for diagnostics, so I'm glad you can still pop one in if you need to (I've noticed a few pedals available recently with no battery, power supply only, but that strikes me as a really bad idea).

I would have thought a Voodoo Labs PP2+ would be one of the least likely to have noise issues.  I've heard of noise from Dunlop power supplies and even more so from those cheap Joyo ones on ebay.  I've got a T-Rex Fuel Tank Chameleon, which has been very good so far but we'll see how it goes with the DB-01 Crybaby and PT-2 Pedaltrain I have on the way.  Hopefully the longer board - the power supply goes on the opposite end of the board from the wah, right? - will be enough to prevent me having this issue.  The main reason I went for the PT-2 over the Jr was that I tend to have a few of the bigger pedals (rather than more pedals), such as a EHX Metal Muff and an MXR 10-band EQ, both of which have a big footprint.  If all my pedals were TC Electronics or even Boss size I could have had a smaller board

[Zaned]

It seems like the main reason pedals have batteries - especially the ISP Decimator G-String, which eats them in twenty minutes - is for diagnostics, so I'm glad you can still pop one in if you need to (I've noticed a few pedals available recently with no battery, power supply only, but that strikes me as a really bad idea).

I would have thought a Voodoo Labs PP2+ would be one of the least likely to have noise issues.  I've heard of noise from Dunlop power supplies and even more so from those cheap Joyo ones on ebay.  I've got a T-Rex Fuel Tank Chameleon, which has been very good so far but we'll see how it goes with the DB-01 Crybaby and PT-2 Pedaltrain I have on the way.  Hopefully the longer board - the power supply goes on the opposite end of the board from the wah, right? - will be enough to prevent me having this issue.  The main reason I went for the PT-2 over the Jr was that I tend to have a few of the bigger pedals (rather than more pedals), such as a EHX Metal Muff and an MXR 10-band EQ, both of which have a big footprint.  If all my pedals were TC Electronics or even Boss size I could have had a smaller board

The Pedaltrain and PP2+ are made to fit together, and I think it is in the center in the PT-2 too. But:

1. You have more space, and you can place the wah farther than I can.
2. You have a different power supply, and could perhaps place it even on the pedal board surface, if you don't mind it taking up space.

I wasn't aware of this wah issue before my occurrance, and my wah is sitting almost on top of the power supply :) I placed it there, because I wanted my guitar signal to hit the buffered pedal first. I'll have to do a bit more testing, and transfer the wah to the other side if it seems that it is quiet enough there. Mind you, it is noisy only if I power up the that high current pedal.

I know your pain about pedal sizes, that Boss DD-20 is also huge. That's why I'm eager to take the wah out, as it takes up the space of 2-3 small pedals, and I don't always need it. The main reason why I purchased a smaller board (still have the bigger one too), was to save space on the smaller stages.

Did you get the PT-2 with a soft case or the hard case? I have the hard case, and the case is excellent! As is the board too, light and sturdy.

-Zaned

[Dave Sloven]

The Pedaltrain and PP2+ are made to fit together, and I think it is in the center in the PT-2 too. But:

1. You have more space, and you can place the wah farther than I can.
2. You have a different power supply, and could perhaps place it even on the pedal board surface, if you don't mind it taking up space.

I was kind of non-plussed regarding the fact that I wouldn't be able to use the little hole on the back of the PT-2 for my T-Rex power supply and that I had to spend another $15 on a 'universal bracket' but looking at  the photo I posted somewhere (maybe the pedal board thread?) with the T-Rex tucked up nicely under the far end of the PT-2 (i.e., away from the wah) with the kettle chord being able to go straight in the side I think, considering the issues you had with your wah, that that's not so bad after all. The bracket allows power supplies that don't fit the Voodoo Labs bracket to be installed.  Apparently you can mod the standard bracket with a grinder to allow the chord to exit from the side but the universal brackets look pretty sturdy and I'm not that good with a grinder. I'd rather spend the $15.

So I should be okay.  This is of course assuming that I don't put some other pedal that causes an issue near the power supply!

Most people put the wah on the far right.  I'm not sure if that works if you are a lefty. Anyway with the Pedaltrain design you can run the cables up and over so you should be able to put your wah in the normal place and still connect to your pedals the way you want.

I've also read on the net about people putting a wireless receiver under the Pedaltrain.  This would no doubt work well if the dimensions of the unit were similar to a power supply, you could just use another one of those brackets.  I don't know how it would work with odd shaped plastic looking ones like the Line 6 digital units though.

On my board I will have to run my signal into an ISP Decimator G-String first and then a tuner before the wah, and then run the effects loop back into the G-String after an MXR 10-band EQ.  On your model of board it would look something like this (putting a Boss noise gate in place of the ISP because its not included in the program), with your delay pedal: 



Personally I would have to be super-impressed with that delay pedal and delay be really important to me to get something so huge, especially for a small board. One reason for the bigger board for me (besides the wah) is that the Peavey 6505 series of amps don't include a reverb, so I'm going to have to buy one like a 'Hall of Fame' or something of that nature (at least it's small!).

You'll note here that the effects loop pedals are on the left and the front end pedals on the right (besides the noise suppression unit, which in my case is in both) and the 'always on' or 'rarely turned off' pedals are at the back, with the tap dancing stuff at the front. You should be able to route these under the board and out the second of those two plug holes at the back of the board or out the side of the board.

[Zaned]

Yeah, I also used that design thingy. I could arrange a bit more space on the board by recabling it with George L, but I used what I had from the previous board. I probably will, at some point. If the wah works noiselessly on the far side, then probably I'll recable it sooner. If it does not, I'll just detach it and stick some new pedals (like the Fuzz I just bought an hour ago :D ) there.

I really like delay. I have given thought about a smaller delay pedal, but I do like the ability to switch between presets. I don't go overboard with it, but I really like what a more spacious delay can do to the right guitar part. I have a hard time letting go of that ability! Or the occasional U2 moment, without having to turn knobs.

EDIT: looking at the board, I can most probably fit the fuzz there with some rearranging. Providing that I can live with the wah when it's on the board. And then it's a board that's small and still doesn't feel like a compromise.

-Zaned