Really concerned Guitarist is losing touch with reality

[tekbow]

I mean more than the tenuous grip it sometimes has..

On the subject of a new british company Vonhatski amps 2 flagship heads (MIUK) at 100w and 50w, they say:

"However, for serious amateurs, semi pros and professional players who want an affordable all valve circuit with dual rectifier flexibility....."

Affordable? for serious amateurs and semi pros? these amps cost near on £1900 and £1700 respectively.

No harm, I know mojo exists everywhere and people pay to get "tonez", but I don't think anyone has ever pretended that the better part of £2k is affordable. I mentioned in another thread that the price of stuff is what the price of is and thats fine, and that someone shouldn't be "demeaned" by having PRS SE, for example, on the headstock of a guitar. but to say what they have said about that kind of money is a little demeaning..

Yes buy what makes you happy, spend as much as you want, but i think the above is a bit of a departure from reality.

This company also has a full page ad in the current issue. And i don't like the new Guitarist format either... they seem to be sticking a couple of high end reviews right at the front of the mag now, the gear featured in them being advertised in a full pager later in the same issue.

[Dave Sloven]

I'd say that in addition to the knobs that they installed on these amps they installed a few more in their publicity and advertising departments!  Affordable for who?  Serious how?  Seems to me this is not intended for your average gigging guitarist, although I'm sure they'll hand out of few freebies to endorsees as part of their campaign to suck in the average big head who likes to flash around his fancy car, girlfriend young enough to be his daughter, leather trousers he probably should have stopped wearing ten years ago, and home recording studio that is only used for a pub band at best (a friend of mine plays with just such a guy).  If you take that into consideration, yes there is quite a market for such things :D

[JJretroTONEGOD]

you might not like it but they really can say whatever they want and charge whatever they want.

[tekbow]

No you're right, they can say what they want, and i certainly have no issue with what the company is charging. I and a lot of other guys here have/have had amps that pricey (or not so much if you buy em second hand). What I'm commenting on is that calling £1700 - £1900 "affordable" is a bit ludicrous. No serious amateur or semi pro that i know, and i know a couple, would consider that to be affordable. most of them are playing Hot Rod Deluxes. At the very least those kind of prices are "upper midrange" and there are quite a few boutique amps can be had for that kind of money

the mad thing is, and i just looked to check, the construction is PCB (and not, by the sounds of it, the multi board type affairs used on Soldanos etc), a single PCB, and the review is actually distinctly average. the tone of the conclusion is basically "yeah they're alright".

So, Guitarist considers £1900 quid to be affordable to an ethusiastic amateur/semi pro for an "alright" amp?

This is my point. the amp company aside (its up to them what they charge), Guitarist can say what they like, but what they're saying is barking.

[Dmoney]

There is nothing wrong with PCB's as long as its done right, even single PCB. The SLO PCB's aren't high end and neither is their layout faultless but they do have other benefits.

These amps look a bit SLO'ish in layout, which is fine, but it always makes me think the amp is going to be SLO based. Adding a dual eq, fancy FX loops, a few tweaks and switchable rectifiers to an SLO type thing isn't anything new. The reverb is possibly a nice touch. It's a bit like it's aiming for a bit of the mesa market or maybe what Cornford has left as a gap, a new Dual Rec is what... £2000? I see a lot of dual rec's around but probably not played by people who bought them new. It would be nice to see a shot of the guts.

You can get other boutique amps from overseas for less money but not with as many features. In fact, for what this amp has, I'd be suspicious of just how much of it is put together in the UK.

[tekbow]

I only mentioned Soldano as an example of PCB layout done right, and yep i agree, there's nothing wrong with PCB amps if done correctly.

But an SLO (as you know yourself) has chassis mounted pots and tube sockets, for example, that are jumpered to the board. This, from the description, doesn't seem too. But you raise an interesting point for the features, things like an Soldano or Conford are amps that are deceptively versatile. Feature light but "tone heavy". and built to a very high and durable standard. Excepting the dual rec in it though, Marshalls can also have a lot of features, and, starting with the JVM range i believe, be built in the UK for much less money than that?

From the review they're saying fender blackface-ish.

as i said, my comments isn't at the directed at, or is a criticism of the amp. It's purely aimed at guitarist calling an amp in that price range affordable.

[Toe-Knee]

When you compare it to a dumble it's extremely affordable.

[Philly Q]

One man's expensive is another man's affordable, we could debate that forever.

There's the old argument about how relatively cheap guitars and amps are compared with, say, a halfway decent violin at the same semi-pro to pro level. 

Or you could just compare the cost of those amps with "normal", but non-essential, things the average person spends money on every year, like holidays, designer clothes, cars...... or those old chestnuts, cigs and booze.

But getting back to Guitarist magazine (and guitar magazines in general), my biggest gripe with their reviews is how lazy they are.  They don't go into sufficient detail, they tend to gloss over quality-control flaws (even though the particular item they've been sent for review was probably the "pick of the bunch") and they never give anything an overall negative review.

[Philly Q]

Of course, the irony is that £2k may not be affordable to a someone who really is struggling to make it as a semi-pro to lower-end professional musician, but it may very well be affordable to an enthusiastic amateur with a day job.  But that's life.

[tekbow]

fair point, a "serious amateur" as they put it, may have a lot more disposable cash.

[Telerocker]

Of course, the irony is that £2k may not be affordable to a someone who really is struggling to make it as a semi-pro to lower-end professional musician, but it may very well be affordable to an enthusiastic amateur with a day job.  But that's life.

Exactly!

[Dmoney]

Well I read the builders 'about' section and it claims those amps are hand made in the UK. I wouldn't call Marshall's 'Hand made', although some are. Things like the JVM are line built with machine populated boards, though granted some assembly always has to be done by hand. Marshall being a larger company (probably!) would have more buying power to stock larger numbers of components which would reduce the cost of each unit produced. This company also claim to use high quality parts, which I would expect cost more that what other companies might use, but that may just be marketing nonsense. We also have that old "don't price your amp too low or people will assume its rubbish" kind of thing going on I imagine. In comparison again with Soldano, their PCB's are hand populated and the SLO100 PCB's themselves are made in-house I believe. Even if this new amp is all PCB mounted it's still a lot of work to do 'by hand' which I would have thought would increase the expense.

It would be interesting to see inside one still. I imagine it'll be nothing out of the ordinary.

Interesting what you say about Feature Heavy amps. I didn't like my Decatone and I sold a Dual Rec after a short tour with it. Everyone I know who runs a Dual Rec has one tone that they use. They don't switch between all the channels, or the loop, and they never use the valve rectifier. I guess the DR is versatile but really is known for a few core tones and once people find that in an amp, they don't tend to channel hop and make use of everything an amp can do. I think other feature heavy amps suffer the same thing. A lot of times when I watch rig rundowns or see bands, people use multiple amps rather than big multi channel ones. I kind of think the more features you add to an amp and the more versatile you try to make it, the more you actually end up making the best tones harder to find and that defining character for that amp or builder gets lost somewhere.

I agree. £1900 isn't exactly "affordable" but then a Splawn is considered to be an affordable boutique amp. I was just browsing GAK and the cost of amps now (I haven't looked for a while!) seems crazy!

Engl Invader 150 £1779
EVH 5150 III £1511
Laney GH100L £849 (this kind of surprised me)
JVM 410H £1077
Mesa Stilletto Deuce £2199
Dual Rec Reborn £2099
Orange TV200H Thunderverb £1717
Orange Rocker 100 with Divo £1564
Peavey 6505/6534 £1159

The marshall actually looks like some kind of bargain?? Why did they reissue the 4100 at £800!! urgh. I'm glad I've been trading up over the years because NON of these amps seem affordable now!

[tekbow]

^ Yep, there are differences in how marshal do it, Soldano do it, and how these guys do it, but if we're talking an "affordable" all tube head with features then a marshall, build methods aside, is much more affordable. I think its from the JVM line up that are uk made, the DSL's and TSL's are now made in vietnam i believe. Even cornford have a PCB range (possibly chinese?) which get good write ups for way less money.

Soldanos are hand populated and all is done in house as you say, they're also built by one person in terms of assembly and wiring from start to finish i believe (maybe some other bloke mounts it in a head shell and some else covers it).

Decatone never appealed to me either, the only trade i would make these days would be up to an SLO, or across to an HR25. and they are really simple amps (from a control point of view). They;re actually what turned me on to the "stripped down thing" and there's amps out there that are even more so.

Had a marshall 6100 years ago, liked at the time, but can't see me going back that direction with any company.

The article made me sit up and take notice of new amp prices too, i was suprised to say the least.

The Laney is a suprise, but a welcome one. they still UK made?

I also can't believe they charge that for a 6505 when you can have a used US made 5150 for half the price.

[_tom_]

Similar thing with my other hobby, cycling. Apparently a ~£3k new mountain bike (which may still need a few things changing) is considered good value for money these days, it's bloody mental. I can get a much better specced bike with my choice of new/2nd hand parts for under a grand!

[Lew]

Yep, Guitarist is shitee and has been for eons. It sustains my interest for about the duration of a bowel movement, assuming I didn't have a curry the night before.

RE the amps - the advert with the Steve Coogan 'Keanu Reeves' characters was all I needed to dismiss them.