Really concerned Guitarist is losing touch with reality

[tekbow]

... mojofied with magic capacitors etc and a premium charged.

https://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=0&products_id=198&zenid=9f2e3994ce3337f059bcf2dd8ef61068

Lol perhaps not the best example on my part, should have said mojo Op Amps..

Have never got myself any of the BKP caps or owt like that, and i won't try to justify em. I will defend the pickups to the death though and the attention that goes into building them.

Juan, If you get a chance, check out those NVN schems, would be interested to see what you'd think of them if you built it.

[pagan7]

For my money I really like the ElectroHarmoniX range of pedals. Was sold on them when someone here posted a video clip of the Doctor Who theme reproduced using their pedals. Whether or not they are clones of this or that , I don't have the tech knowledge to say and to be honest , I don't care if they are or not because they keep pumping out really interesting sounding gear at wallet friendly prices , so I've never felt ripped off in any sense or disappointed with the build quality and durability, and no , there's no cheque in the post to me for saying this  8)

[Kiichi]

Personally by now I have 3 kinds of pedals I like out of the whole market:
1. Selfbuild clones. Boosts, Fuzzes, comps and some other stuff. Fuzzes, comps and boosts can take central parts for me but a lot of this is trying stuff out any toying around.
2. Juansolo stuff. Anything I can't build myself (yet xD) and when I just need good quality for the most part. Great stuff, even better bloke. Will recommend to anyone who'll listen.
3. Strymon pedals. I am not aware of anyone who can clone these as they are hella complex and advanced (not that I have seen schematics though). Don't even know if they can be considered truly boutique in the way we often use it, seems more like high end gear to me really. Extremely versatile and amazing quality. Not cheap but I feel not overpriced, at least in my mind. For me these are insanely great.

Disclaimer: I am paid by neither Strymon, Juansolo nor myself....well maybe by myself. =)

Of course there are some other smaller things out there that strike my fancy, but nothing much noteworthy really. I do like my MXR 10 Band EQ for example. And of course the clones John or I build are based on things (though John brings a lot more selfmodding into it). There are also some other ones out there I would gladly buy like Devi Ever stuff. While I think they are a bit overpriced for example the Zvex stuff is pretty great. The Machine looks pretty innovative to me and the Super Hard On while insanely simple still is a pretty unusual and new way for a booster to work (though from what I read Vexter was only like the second or so guy to do it). So you got a booster which is a great circuit, pretty unique, but which is so freaking small and simple that it can be taped to the side of a push pull poti and build for peanuts, but sells for more than 100 quid in the cheaper version. All parts together this would cost me less than 10 to make. Deduct savings from bigger orders of parts, add labour costs and sum total I still can't see how over 100 quid is fair considering for how much other circuits go. Of course here we get into the discussion of what people are willing to pay will be charged and all that, I just wanne say with things like this I personally draw the line. If I pay a lot for a Strymon Timeline I can kinda see a lot more value for money.


Point I was trying to make at the beginning before I drifted off was that I don't find a lot of stuff where I feel like I should buy it because the price properly fits the product. Somethings I would gladly pay (Strymon, Devi ever, etc), some are ok (MXR, etc), but the largest chunk of things feel so overpriced, especially when you look at what it is, that I just rather make a clone or have one made.

[juansolo]

Some of it is, some of is isn't. Skreddys for example (they too have gone up in price) are very very good, specific sound Big Muffs, and built expertly like tanks. D*A*M does some very very faitful repros of old circuits, but also has some really intersting stuff like the Dragnfly which i s a cross between a tonebender and fuzzface. Again, only expensive second hand, but get on a list, have some patience and you pay a reasonable price. Also built like tanks. I have a Dragnfly, there's nothing else like it, very unique in terms of what it does.way more flexible than either of its parents.

Marc (Skreddy) and Dave (DAM) are what I consider to be good guys of the boutique world. They're totally transparent about what they're building (muffs and old fuzzes) and they just do them with a great ear and great skill.

You tend to find the good guys are genuinely interested in the pedals and when the DIY guys pull them apart, rather than brand them terrorists and try and get the site closed down, they'll help correct any errors. Mainly because they don't want us building them and thinking 'well that's a bag of shite' when there are mistakes in the trace. Also because they tend to be pedal geeks like us. PaulC, Subdecay and Catalinbread are another few that come to mind when it comes to good guys who make great and interesting gear. For unique stuff EarthQuakerDevices have some barking mad things (check out the Rainbow Machine. ...and yes I do own one).

Juan, If you get a chance, check out those NVN schems, would be interested to see what you'd think of them if you built it.

Will check them out later

3. Strymon pedals. I am not aware of anyone who can clone these as they are hella complex and advanced (not that I have seen schematics though). Don't even know if they can be considered truly boutique in the way we often use it, seems more like high end gear to me really. Extremely versatile and amazing quality. Not cheap but I feel not overpriced, at least in my mind. For me these are insanely great.

Strymon (also Eventide and Neunaber) are all digital effects. They're likely only actually one circuit (probably DSP) and the different pedals are actually just different algorithms loaded on to them. The Neunaber stuff is a great example of this as you can buy any one of his pedals and flash it to be any other. I love that, especially as he's honing and tweaking them all the time and the updates are all free.

Cloning the hardware wouldn't actually be impossible. Copying the software (algorithms) would be difficult and absolutely illegal. You might not be able to copyright hardware (because it can be reverse engineered), but you can absolutely copyright software. You'll never see clones of these effects.

For my money I really like the ElectroHarmoniX range of pedals. Was sold on them when someone here posted a video clip of the Doctor Who theme reproduced using their pedals. Whether or not they are clones of this or that , I don't have the tech knowledge to say and to be honest , I don't care if they are or not because they keep pumping out really interesting sounding gear at wallet friendly prices , so I've never felt ripped off in any sense or disappointed with the build quality and durability, and no , there's no cheque in the post to me for saying this  8)

Mike Matthews (Mr EHX) is one of the pioneers of pedals. He's been copied a-plenty rather than the other way around!

Worth watching if you've got an hour and a half to spare:

fuzz - the sound that revolutionized the world

[Elliot]

There is no guarantee that Booteek is better quality than Joyo - For example I have an HBE Power Screamer - the pot has gone south and a resistor has burnt out due to poor wiring on the 9v input (which was somewhat frightening).  The diode selector switch works 7 times out of 10.  On the other hand, the problem I have had no problems with the cheap as shitee Joyo.

[Dmoney]

I had an HBE wah once. The 9v socket was wired backwards so it wouldn't work off a wall wart. It also got kicked across the stage at a show and broke. After that I never used it again. Junk.

[Telerocker]

There is no guarantee that Booteek is better quality than Joyo - For example I have an HBE Power Screamer - the pot has gone south and a resistor has burnt out due to poor wiring on the 9v input (which was somewhat frightening).  The diode selector switch works 7 times out of 10.  On the other hand, the problem I have had no problems with the cheap as shiteee Joyo.

All my Boss- and Ibanez-pedals from the early 80's are still going strong. They never failed.

[tekbow]

Worth watching if you've got an hour and a half to spare:

fuzz - the sound that revolutionized the world

thats an awesome documentary especially when they get into "transparent" pedals lol

"Transparent?? It adds high end!"

[tekbow]

There is no guarantee that Booteek is better quality than Joyo - For example I have an HBE Power Screamer - the pot has gone south and a resistor has burnt out due to poor wiring on the 9v input (which was somewhat frightening).  The diode selector switch works 7 times out of 10.  On the other hand, the problem I have had no problems with the cheap as shiteee Joyo.

Noone said Joyo were bad, quite the opposite in fact, here's the thread i was referring to

http://www.tdpri.com/forum/stomp-box/441023-joyo-pedals-whats-verdict.html

as for HBE i have no experience of them as they never appealed to me. Guarantee is a dangerous word though. that implies "No siree, it will not fail or have any defects no matter what". I'd rather hear "I tell you what, if we do drop the ball, we'll damn sure sort it out". I would still say, that buying from a small builder, who is honest and upfront, who has a good word of mouth rep, and who knows what they're doing will buy you better durability and reliability than you find in general on the market place.

And then to say "all boss and ibanez pedals I own in the 80's have never failed" is a red herring. Go to analogmans site for pictures of trashed TS9's. And i know of plenty of boss pedals that have died, one of mine included. Saying a wah stopped working after it got kicked across a stage is like saying you couldn't drive a car after you slashed its tires ;)

It's worth noting by the way that mass production in the 60's 70's and 80's means something very different from now

Lets take it back to Amps, lets say Matchless and Soldano, both opposite ends of the construction spectrum within the "Boutique" market. both legendary for their durability. both legendary for putting right things when they do go wrong (SLO100? Transferable lifetime warranty???). Recent Marshalls and Fenders? not the same level, but not bad. Old Marshalls, Fenders and Voxs? well.. here's the funny thing. they're still going strong. But how they were made back then would be what people think of as "boutique" building now.. except back then it wasn't. It was just how you did things

all I'm trying to say is that, when it comes to, lets call it high end gear because i hate the word boutique, there's many different levels within that, with no real way for the consumer to differentiate. Expensive doesn't equal good, we know that. but we have to take stuff on case by case, company by company basis. The "small operation" companies that i know and more importantly, trust (and lets face it we're on the forum for one) hand build their products, or have a high level QC process if they don't (thinking Strymon there because in the bog scheme of things, they are a small operation and what they've done is pretty unique), are built like tanks, and don't cost the earth.

[Dmoney]

I'd like to add, I didn't kick it across the stage. It got trampled by other people than myself. I just got tired of it being unreliable compared to a run of the mill nothing fancy about it crybaby and so I got rid of it. It should have been able to take the knock that it took. It meant I had to repatch my cables mid song. awful. After that I gave up putting any pedals at the front of the stage.

[juansolo]

And then to say "all boss and ibanez pedals I own in the 80's have never failed" is a red herring. Go to analogmans site for pictures of trashed TS9's. And i know of plenty of boss pedals that have died, one of mine included. Saying a wah stopped working after it got kicked across a stage is like saying you couldn't drive a car after you slashed its tires ;)

I've repaired a Boss compressor that was fitted with ICs that weren't rated for 9v... Inevitably they failed. Swapped them for ones that were and off we go again. Cheap pedal that ;)

Honestly 'boutiqueness' or cost guarantees absolutely nothing. A *LOT* of them are in it for the money and to make any money at all out of pedals you have to make 'em cheap and sell 'em pricey. This I would say counts for an awful lot of boutique builders.

I can tell you now that the better builders do not make a great deal hand making pedals in their basements... How PaulC can survive at the price he sells the Timmy for is beyond me for example.

I've looked into making pedals for a living and it's just not financially viable unless I could sell them at £400 a pop or get the boards and boxes mass produced in China.

Saying that... Watch this space new year time. I'm planning a small run of pedals that'll hopefully buy us some powder coating gear.

[bucketshred]

Saying that... Watch this space new year time. I'm planning a small run of pedals that'll hopefully buy us some powder coating gear.

PLEASE BE SPACE RITUALS!!

Paddy

[juansolo]

Saying that... Watch this space new year time. I'm planning a small run of pedals that'll hopefully buy us some powder coating gear.

PLEASE BE SPACE RITUALS!!

Paddy

LOL, no. They're quite intensive to say the least! That's not to say that I couldn't do another. All the boards that go into it are currently available and I've even got a large enclosure spare and a 4th decal as I was on a run when I was doing those... See who gets this one:



Appologies for completely derailing this thread by the way... *blushes*

No the only pedals that I seem to be able to shift with relative ease are Klones. We've got a good relationship with a bloke in Canada and we're going to have a few boards coming from them that we've had a say in how they'll turn out (they'll be commercial pedals over there). Essentially we were discussing (from a builders perspective) how to make the perfect Klone. Electronically it's still identical to the usual Klones. But we've got it so it's going to be compact, robust and easy to assemble. Looking forward to getting our hands on the prototype board for that one to see how it goes.

The theory is that it'll finally get us into the black on the pedal building (not sure that's ever happened) and pay for some powder coating gear so we can coat our own enclosures rather than having to buy them in. That's the idea anyhow.

[Philly Q]

^
Love that Dopesmoker artwork!

[juansolo]

I'd probably use a different font to be fair. I just threw that at the template and it fitted really nicely. I might build it anyhow...