Jet City JCA50H vs. Marshall JVM 205 vs. EVH 5150 III 50 Watt

[Dave Sloven]

Get the EVH 50W ...

[Nadz1lla]

I'd kind of agree with that statement in that you'll need to give it a boost, but the Bad Monkey should be more than enough to get it there. If you have any kind of EQ pedal, that might help too if you just want to shape the tone a little more. My signal chain includes the Boss GE7 and a Bad Monkey, they're the only pedals I need, really. If I had the money, I wouldn't hesitate to go and buy one of the Marshall JVM range, most probably the 205H, as even with just the two channels it's a very versatile beast and there's no doubt about its reliability and robust electronics. But, like you say, you're on a budget, and you already have a pedal that will do the TS9 thing, so the JCA50H should do exactly what you want it to. :)

[Toe-Knee]

Cheers guys (especially Toe-Knee and Nad) for the responses, I appreciate every input :)

The JCA50H is currently for sale at Thomann for under 300€ quid, so that would be a steal and that's exactly the reason I'm so tempted to get one. Only thing I need to clear up is: does this amp get the metal rhythm job done? I watched a Youtube video of a guy today where he was praising the Lead Sound of the head yet recommending a 5150 for rhythms, quote:

"careful. the JCA voicing is very very different from that of a recto or peavey. It's got a thick, compressed low end and lower midrange and the top end is smooth.

It doesn't bite in the upper mids and treble the way a marshall will and it doesn't have the upper end presence/sizzle (fizz for some) and tightness that the peavey's have.

These are great hard/modern rock amps though but lack the lower end clarity for metal that the peaveys have. They're way better for lead though vs the peaveys"

"if you're wanting to do straight metal, just buy a 5150. This amp has to try really hard to do metal and requires a boost."

"well, what I'm meaning is that the JCA has a very thick/compressed lower end and lower midrange. That tight clean chugging for rhythm work isn't really what it does too well. There are mods you can do to help it out but at the end of the day, it's voiced like a soldano and they've always been much better lead amps than metal rhythm amps. Try one with a boost before you commit financially if you can."

So how much truth is there behind this statements? I'm really trying to assure I'm not gonna make a wrong purchase just because G.A.S. has gotten the better part of me once again :P

Cheers!

Is there nowhere local that you can try one? From what i remember the rhythm sounds was pretty damn good. As your quote said it just isnt fizzy and has wallop in the low mids :D

I'm 100% certain that with a boost you will have no issues whatsoever or with a few simple mods that most techs can do for you with ease you wont even need the boost.

But as with every amp I would suggest trying it first.

[Dave Sloven]

On what the guy said regarding 5150s I'm not sure about them but if they are similar to the 5150 II I can say that the Peavey 6534+ is better for leads than the 5150 II, having much more mid-range cut (this is comparing two amps with no pedals on the same settings).  I dare say that the EVH 5150 III is an improvement on the Peavey 5150 II in this respect too.

[dave_mc]

Cheers guys (especially Toe-Knee and Nad) for the responses, I appreciate every input :)

The JCA50H is currently for sale at Thomann for under 300€ quid, so that would be a steal and that's exactly the reason I'm so tempted to get one. Only thing I need to clear up is: does this amp get the metal rhythm job done? I watched a Youtube video of a guy today where he was praising the Lead Sound of the head yet recommending a 5150 for rhythms, quote:

"careful. the JCA voicing is very very different from that of a recto or peavey. It's got a thick, compressed low end and lower midrange and the top end is smooth.

It doesn't bite in the upper mids and treble the way a marshall will and it doesn't have the upper end presence/sizzle (fizz for some) and tightness that the peavey's have.

These are great hard/modern rock amps though but lack the lower end clarity for metal that the peaveys have. They're way better for lead though vs the peaveys"

"if you're wanting to do straight metal, just buy a 5150. This amp has to try really hard to do metal and requires a boost."

"well, what I'm meaning is that the JCA has a very thick/compressed lower end and lower midrange. That tight clean chugging for rhythm work isn't really what it does too well. There are mods you can do to help it out but at the end of the day, it's voiced like a soldano and they've always been much better lead amps than metal rhythm amps. Try one with a boost before you commit financially if you can."

So how much truth is there behind this statements? I'm really trying to assure I'm not gonna make a wrong purchase just because G.A.S. has gotten the better part of me once again :P

Cheers!

there probably is some truth to that. they have a load of gain, but as you said, seem to be more voiced for leads than rhythms, they're pretty smooth-sounding.

You can sort of get round it a couple of ways. I use a more transparent boost pedal with it, which cuts the mids a bit- on the cheap a digitech screamin blues works well. then i kick on a ts- or sd1-type od pedal for leads. Just to clarify- I'm not sure you need a boost. With humbuckers it has loads of gain. Just I prefer the sound of most amps nowadays with the gain rolled back and hit with a boost instead (I'm playing at low home volumes). To give you some idea, when I use those boosts, I'm running the od channel's gain on 3. :lol:

Judicious speaker selection would probably help, too- i use eminence v12s which are kinda middy, so that doesn't help so much, but I like them because they tame the amp's brightness a bit, too. But i suspect something more scooped would help with the rhythm tones.

It's really up to you. Like you, I took a chance because I couldn't pass them at that price (and I really liked the soldano avenger I'd tried and figured this might get part of the way there on the cheap). But it's really your call, only you can decide whether the price is good enough that it's worth the risk.

[GuitarIv]

Just have 5 minutes available so I'm gonna sumarise my thoughts real quick after reading through everything: The problem I currently have with my Valveking is that it sounds way too harsh and trebly which may be due to the recently changed tubes (old ones blew up, the new ones are probably something cheap) or the Laney Cab and it's scooped nature, so the JC50 might be the right way to go. My Strat also sounds very bright, snappy and tight and in combination with the Miracle Man it might work. I always turn down the gain on the amp and boost it with a TS Type Pedal, so right now I'm thinking I might just take a shot in the dark and grab the amp for 300 quid - after all Thomann has a money back guarantee  :D

[Dave Sloven]

Maybe upgrade the cab first and see if that improves things?

I have an Orange PPC412 and that is VERY midrangey due to the four Celestion V30s, but that might be what you want. I am actually thinking of pulling two speakers out and installing Eminence Swamp Thang speakers in an X pattern with them to calm down the mid spike of the V30s.  The Swamp Thangs are apparently very scooped with a big bottom and top, and compliment the V30s well.  It might be that you just need a couple of V30s in your cab if it is a 4x12.  I have heard that this trick does not work so well in a 2x12 though.  Also if the Laney cab is particle board rather than ply it might not be as beneficial.

[tekbow]

don't think you have to worry..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CN9xduiMmvw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFAXos32BCc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7PHh_aIwQY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK72sO8aNwI

unless of course those aren;t the characteristics you're looking for.

[fhn_lopes]

Maybe upgrade the cab first and see if that improves things?

I have an Orange PPC412 and that is VERY midrangey due to the four Celestion V30s, but that might be what you want. I am actually thinking of pulling two speakers out and installing Eminence Swamp Thang speakers in an X pattern with them to calm down the mid spike of the V30s.  The Swamp Thangs are apparently very scooped with a big bottom and top, and compliment the V30s well.  It might be that you just need a couple of V30s in your cab if it is a 4x12.  I have heard that this trick does not work so well in a 2x12 though.  Also if the Laney cab is particle board rather than ply it might not be as beneficial.

The problem in mixing celestions and eminences is the sensibility.... the eminences usually lie at 99-101db range and the V30 is at 99db... If you get a 101db range speaker, there's the risk of covering the V30 in volume, even though if they are different in tone spectrum, in other words, maybe you'll get more swamp thang than you'd like to... Don't know the swamp thang range, just saying... The G12T-75 works nice with V30s too.... ;)

[Toe-Knee]

Maybe upgrade the cab first and see if that improves things?

I have an Orange PPC412 and that is VERY midrangey due to the four Celestion V30s, but that might be what you want. I am actually thinking of pulling two speakers out and installing Eminence Swamp Thang speakers in an X pattern with them to calm down the mid spike of the V30s.  The Swamp Thangs are apparently very scooped with a big bottom and top, and compliment the V30s well.  It might be that you just need a couple of V30s in your cab if it is a 4x12.  I have heard that this trick does not work so well in a 2x12 though.  Also if the Laney cab is particle board rather than ply it might not be as beneficial.

The problem in mixing celestions and eminences is the sensibility.... the eminences usually lie at 99-101db range and the V30 is at 99db... If you get a 101db range speaker, there's the risk of covering the V30 in volume, even though if they are different in tone spectrum, in other words, maybe you'll get more swamp thang than you'd like to... Don't know the swamp thang range, just saying... The G12T-75 works nice with V30s too.... ;)

Generally you are safe with a 3dB difference in efficiency.

I happily ran a 102dB Manowar with a V30 thats 100dB from memory with no issues. But as you said the different frequencies generally fill in the gaps which is the whole point of mixing speakers IMHO the Man O War was scooped with chunky yet tight lows and nice sizzle in the highs whilst the v30 provided the mids but the V30s flabby low end was covered up nicely.

[Dave Sloven]

I've read good reports on these in 'X-pattern' but not so good with the 2x12 ... just going on what people have said from using them.  I've also heard that the G12T-75s work well.

Like having two cabs in one!

I find that the all V30s cab makes the presence of the Peaveys sound quite harsh.  Also it would free up a couple of V30s to be used somewhere else where they could do some good.  I've heard that the Peavey Classic 30, for instance, can be transformed from a good amp into a great one with a speaker change to a V30 instead of the Blue Marvel.  I've considered getting one of those amps if I can find one at the right price, to have something that is not 'uber br00tz' like the 6534+ or just straight-up poxy like my Roland Cube, or clapped out like my old teal stripe Peavey Bandit.

[dave_mc]

Maybe upgrade the cab first and see if that improves things?

I have an Orange PPC412 and that is VERY midrangey due to the four Celestion V30s, but that might be what you want. I am actually thinking of pulling two speakers out and installing Eminence Swamp Thang speakers in an X pattern with them to calm down the mid spike of the V30s.  The Swamp Thangs are apparently very scooped with a big bottom and top, and compliment the V30s well.  It might be that you just need a couple of V30s in your cab if it is a 4x12.  I have heard that this trick does not work so well in a 2x12 though.  Also if the Laney cab is particle board rather than ply it might not be as beneficial.

The problem in mixing celestions and eminences is the sensibility.... the eminences usually lie at 99-101db range and the V30 is at 99db... If you get a 101db range speaker, there's the risk of covering the V30 in volume, even though if they are different in tone spectrum, in other words, maybe you'll get more swamp thang than you'd like to... Don't know the swamp thang range, just saying... The G12T-75 works nice with V30s too.... ;)

no worries about mixing, eminence ratings are optimistic.

Obviously you have to mix speakers which complement each other in terms of tone, though- I haven't tried a swamp thang with a v30 (though I have both here in different stereo cabs, just never got round to trying that combo :lol: ). Agreed that g12t75 is a nice mix with a v30.

Though if he's buying on thomann, the handiest thing to do would likely be to just pick up the harley benton g212 vintage which already has v30s and which is about £160. That's not gonna cost you much more than upgrading the laney cab, and it's plywood (dunno what the laney is, it may well be ply, too).

[gordiji]

With regard to thommans harley benton cabs they say they're plywood but the unloaded 1x12 i bought had a plywood baffle board, the rest being mdf. I couldn't be arsed doing anything about it as it wasn't dear but it's a bit naughty of thomman. I'll bet the 2x12 is the same.

[dave_mc]

no the 2x12 seems to be plywood (at least as far as I can identify these things, I wouldn't put money on my ability to differentiate different types of wood and particleboard :lol: )

But I agree that that's a bit naughty regarding the 1x12.

[GuitarIv]

So there's an update:

I played both the JCA22H and the Marshall JVM205 today in a music store and thus have now a real life reference regarding all three amps (provided that the JCA50 is similar in voicing to the 22H).

What I experienced with the Jet City is a thick, warm and chunky overdrive with a saturation that reminds me of the sound of the Holydiver (if I had to compare the amp to a pickup). Now I know why people round here have said that it differs to the classic modern distortion one associates with the 6505 range. I must say I like it, but I'm still not quite sure if I should go for it...

The JVM sounded quite nasty and had that typical Marshall roar and grit with an acceptable clean sound. I boosted the amp with a Digitech Bad Monkey and the Overdrive Channel on the Orange mode delivered more than enough gain. Only thing I found a bit disturbing was a certain fizz in the highs the amp was producing.

Opinions are welcome  :)