Replacing Dragons on PRS Standard

[SteveJG]

hello there, I'm after a bit of advice on replacing a set of Dragon II's on my PRS standard 24 - the sound is ok but a bit unexciting and fairly middy - as I have read on these forums, not wildly musical. What I don't know is, how much of that sound is coming from the guitar itself, and how much do the Dragons contribute? Do Dragons compensate for the thin body/neck, or is the guitar itself providing this round middy boost? Because if I'm looking to replace the pickups, I'm wondering do I go for something like Riff Raffs to give the guitar a boost in the upper frequencies, or do I go for a Black Dog which I love the sound of, but will it sound  worse in a middy guitar (as it seems to be a middy pickup?) I'm also torn between getting Crawlers, too, as there was a guy on you tube made them sound fantastic, as they have great single coil sounds, so more versatile - the kind of sound I'm looking for is airy, hotter than vintage but not for metal, high gain stuff - I've got a Les Paul too so don't need it to sound like one. Just wondered what your thoughts were, and if anyone knew a bit about how Dragons work. Thanks for any help!

[Slartibartfarst42]

I wouldn't worry too much about middy pickups or indeed any other type unless they're extreme. I use a Holydiver in a Custom 24 and it's awesome. I also used a Holydiver in a maple neck-thru Jackson (a very middy construction) and it worked equally well.

It sounds like you're after something that's got a bit of vintage character to it so for the bridge, I'd suggest either an Abraxas or a Crawler. I use a Crawler in the bridge of one of my PRS guitars and it's awesome. You'll find my rather detailed review in the stickied review thread.

The Crawler may suit you for the neck as well, as may the Abraxas and Mule as they're VERY similar. The Crawler was good but wasn't for me as it was so vintage in character that I didn't care for the lack of cut. The Emerald is beyond words in the neck of a PRS and I heartily recommend it. Again, you'll find my review in the stickied review thread.

[SteveJG]

Thanks for your reply, Slarti. I read your reviews and you've convinced me. I'd never thought of the emerald, as I guess I associate them with Les Pauls, but it sounds like you've discovered a great neck pickup for your PRS. I'm going to get the McCarty wiring harness as I'm not a big fan of the 5-way switch to get better single coil options, so definitely leaning towards the crawler to get the best sc sounds out of that. Roll on payday!

[darkbluemurder]

I had a pair of Dragon IIs once - could not sell them fast enough ...

I currently use the Crawler bridge with a VHII neck in my PRS Custom. Before that I was very happy with the Holydiver bridge and Cold Sweat neck. But I am sure that an Abraxas set would be great, too. Going from vintage to modern the seqence would be Abraxas, Crawler, HD/CS.

Cheers Stephan

[Brow]

I replaced the Dragons in my Custom 22 with a pair of Abraxas and couldn't be happier.

The neck pickup is vintage PAF all the way and the bridge I think of and describe as 'PAF+'

[Slartibartfarst42]

I use a Holydiver in my other PRS and it's also great but certainly more modern. I tend to use that one for aggressive tones. The Crawler is more versatile and really does work well providing your amp isn't too dark. I wouldn't be without mine now.

The Emerald neck isn't as bright as the bridge version so I wouldn't worry about that. There are a lot of great neck pickups available like the Cold Sweat, VHII and Holydiver etc. but for me the Emerald really is sweet  :D

My Crawler/Emerald combo came about a bit by accident but it's really worked out well. If your guitar is similar to a Custom 24 in terms of its brightness/darkness then it's a combination I can thoroughly recommend. If it's darker than a Custom 24, you might try the Abraxas instead. The other guitarist in my band is a dyed in the wool Fender guy yet miraculously, he's now looking for a used PRS to put a Crawler/Emerald combo in  :D

[Philly Q]

Just a thought, not wishing to argue with the guys' suggestions but I'd be a bit cautious putting a Crawler bridge in a PRS Standard, it might be a bit too much on the dark/middy/muddy side since the guitar is all-mahogany without a maple top.

I don't know the spec of Dragon IIs (PRS never seem to reveal much detail about their pickups), but if you're finding them too round/middy I'd be very surprised if the Crawler is any less middy.

[SteveJG]

ahh so many pickups, and only 2 slots. Every time I read about one of these pickups I like it, so I reckon I could pick any BKP pickup and it would sound great. Thing is, I don't know if the guitar itself is bright or dark, as I don't know what the Dragons are doing, whether they are middy or dark themselves, but the guitar sounds great unplugged and clean, just don't like the overdrive much. I don't get the Holydiver reference (like I get crawler and emerald) - sorry to sound ignorant - but what ballpark are they aiming for? Do they have a good single coil sound? (not important, but if you're going to wire for push/pulls it would be nice)

[SteveJG]

Thanks Philly Q, that's an interesting point. I had just assumed that the guitar had a maple top, as it has the bare wood effect edging around the body implying that it has. I have had the pickups out for a nosy around, but didn't think to check that it had a real maple top, though the binding isn't red, as you would expect of mahogany. Having said that, the guitar does sound like a mahogany guitar, and what exactly defines a standard over a custom? Knowing PRS, it probably depends on how they felt at the time. I had a Custom 22 once with Dragons and that did sound brighter.

[Philly Q]

I would think the middiness is largely due to the guitar and the all-mahogany construction.  I don't know if yours is a tremolo model or a hardtail (was there ever a hardtail Standard 24?  I forget...), but it's basically an SG with a different body shape.

I remember forum member Eric Hellstyle - a guy who generally knows what he's talking about, for sure - saying that the Dragon II bridge is voiced similarly to the Emerald.  If that's right, the Dragon II's "natural" character is probably pretty bright; nobody's ever said the Emerald is dark or excessively middy.

[Philly Q]

Thanks Philly Q, that's an interesting point. I had just assumed that the guitar had a maple top, as it has the bare wood effect edging around the body implying that it has. I have had the pickups out for a nosy around, but didn't think to check that it had a real maple top, though the binding isn't red, as you would expect of mahogany. Having said that, the guitar does sound like a mahogany guitar, and what exactly defines a standard over a custom? Knowing PRS, it probably depends on how they felt at the time. I had a Custom 22 once with Dragons and that did sound brighter.

Ah now, that being the case, are you sure it's a Standard 24 and not a Custom 24?

The PRS Standard (22 or 24) is an all mahogany guitar, without a maple top.  But, just to confuse things, I have a dim memory that many years ago there were Standards in certain colours which did have maple tops - I think it applied to goldtop Standards and also, possibly, to Standards finished in gloss black.....?  I've been Googling but can't find anything to confirm that.

But it does sound like yours, whatever it is, has a maple top, so ignore my concerns about all-mahogany guitars.

[SteveJG]

thanks Philly Q - to clarify, it was made in 1999 and is a gloss black. The PRS papers say it is a Standard 24, and it looks like it does indeed have a maple top.

[Philly Q]

Well, I guess that fits with my theory about the gloss black.  I'm not going senile after all.  :D

If it has the PRS "binding" around the edges it's definitely a maple top.  So, you could be back to Crawlers again.  :lol:

[Slartibartfarst42]

Thing is, I don't know if the guitar itself is bright or dark, as I don't know what the Dragons are doing, whether they are middy or dark themselves, but the guitar sounds great unplugged and clean, just don't like the overdrive much. I don't get the Holydiver reference (like I get crawler and emerald) - sorry to sound ignorant - but what ballpark are they aiming for? Do they have a good single coil sound? (not important, but if you're going to wire for push/pulls it would be nice)

The Holydiver is aimed at an 80's Metal market. It's named after the song 'Holydiver' by Dio but basically nails that whole 80's Metal sound so think of bands like Whitesnake and early Ozzy and that's it. Having said that, it's still reasonably versatile, going from Classic Rock to more modern Metal while the Crawler is Blues Rock to 80's Metal. The Holydiver will split fine but it's not as nice as the Crawler split.

I think you need to focus on your guitar's unplugged sound. My Custom 24 is warm but not hugely dark while a Gibson Les Paul tends to be naturally much darker and richer but a Fender Stratocaster is brighter and thinner. If yours is dark like a Gibson, I'd think carefully about the Crawler but I doubt it is that dark. An Abraxas would take it back a step and make it a bit brighter while the Holydiver would move it on a step to make it tighter, a bit more aggressive and again, a bit brighter.

[Telerocker]

Seems like an Abraxas-set to me.