VHII's in a Les Paul - Your opinions?

[sdgiffin]

Hey guys,

I'm replacing the Dimarzios in my LP and I have pretty much decided on an Abraxas set. I love the Mules but just wanted a little more out of them, especially in the bridge BUT I pondered for a minute on maybe a VHII set. What are your guys' experience with VHIIs in LPs?

Also, I play bluesy hard rock/stoner metal like Graveyard, Sabbath, Radio Moscow, etc. so if you have any insight on the VHIIs in this application, hook me up!

Thanks,

Scott

[Dave Sloven]

I'd like to see more on this too.

Does your LP have a maple top?

[sdgiffin]

I'd like to see more on this too.

Does your LP have a maple top?

Yes is it does. It's an '89 Standard in a rare Cream color :) Here it is in action

[Telerocker]

For those styles I would pick the VHII. I have one in an ash strat, but it kills in mahogany/maple top too. It's a focussed, noncompressed, balanced pickup with quite some low end, good mids and present, but not shrill topend. If you like touchsensitivity, this one is for you. The VHII really screams when you dig in. It also feels quite hot for a vintagehot pickup. Almost the same output as my Crawler. Great allround (hard)rockpickup that can do some metal too.

[Slartibartfarst42]

I'm a bit surprised by that because the EQ chart on the website suggests it's a reasonably bright pickup. I've also heard that it uses quite an offset on the wind to give it those single coil characteristics people often refer to with the VHII. In fairness, I've never tried one myself as those two things have always put me off.

It seems to me that the Black Dog might be an option in a Les Paul as it has some of that PAF DNA in it, has a substantial bottom end without being overly dark and will run from Blues to Metal.

[Alex]

I'm also interested in this topic; I'm sold on the harmonics and the overall sound of the pickup, but I'm unsure it will be tight enough on the low end for metal.

I feel a Black Dog would be alright in terms of tightness (I had that pickup for a long time), so how does the VHII fare in terms of tightness?

[Telerocker]

Once more: the VHII doesn't sound like a singlecoil. Maybe it's the big range of pickattack, the punch or the clarity that users describe as singlecoilish. Yes, the topend is pronounced, but not annoyingly bright, harsh or shrill. Hard to describe.Well for sure you will hear every note when tapping. At the same time the VHII has really good bass and midrange. It sounds more in your face, has more balls and feels hotter than a Mule. It's way tighter than a Mule or a Crawler. I don't own the Black Dog, so I can't compare the VHII with it. But, in a Les Paul the VHII can be at it's place if your looking for a focussed, hotter PAF. Harmonics jump out way easier, compared to a Mule or a Crawler (sorry again those two, but these are my BKP-references). When I remember well, one of the guitarists of Godsized uses VHII's in his Les Paul.

[Dave Sloven]

Watch this clip of forum member hunter playing a VHII bridge:

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30396.0

Neck pickup is a Rebel Yell.

[ericsabbath]

the vhii sounds more pafish than the black dog
the dog has a very dense and modern midrange voicing due to its different wire type and gauge, while the vhII sounds like a punchier and more articulate riff raff/mule breed

I LOVED the vhII for sabbath stuff in a gibson sg, but in a les paul copy, I liked the mule better for that
the mule sounds more fluid under lots of gain

just listened to that radio moscow
loving it!  :D :D :D
and I'd actually pick the riff raff for that, but the mule sounds AMAZING on that gain level

[sdgiffin]

the vhii sounds more pafish than the black dog
the dog has a very dense and modern midrange voicing due to its different wire type and gauge, while the vhII sounds like a punchier and more articulate riff raff/mule breed

I LOVED the vhII for sabbath stuff in a gibson sg, but in a les paul copy, I liked the mule better for that
the mule sounds more fluid under lots of gain

just listened to that radio moscow
loving it!  :D :D :D
and I'd actually pick the riff raff for that, but the mule sounds AMAZING on that gain level

Glad you enjoy Radio Moscow, they're a pretty dope band!

I thought of the Riff Raff in the neck (i feel the bridge might be too bright) and maybe an Abraxas or Black Dog bridge but then I started concocting a dozen different combos and my brain started to hurt. The large amount of great, suitable pickups in the BKP line can be overwhelming sometimes so I decided to pick a set to help narrow the choices down rather than mismatching. Not closed off to the idea if any of you awesome forum members present some awesome options :)

Although no one has vouched for them I still think the Abraxas is an option. I do really enjoy a bridge pickup that has a bit more push than vintage voiced pickups but I love the original, PAF sound for the neck, which to me by the BKP description is the Abraxas. I also don't tune terribly low (D standard) on this guitar so having a ridiculously tight bridge pup isn't paramount, especially with the amp I'm using; I play through a 1981 Marshall JCM 800 2203.
I'm also very interested in trying the Alnico IV route. I have played Mules in a friend's PRS Spruce Hollowbody and I love the frequency balance, clarity and overall vibe, I just need a little more balls behind them, especially in the bridge.

So the options I'm still looking at are...

Abraxas set
VHII set
BD (b)/Riff Raff (n)
and anything else you guys can come up with.

[sdgiffin]

Watch this clip of forum member hunter playing a VHII bridge:

https://bareknucklepickups.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=30396.0

Neck pickup is a Rebel Yell.

Although I'm not a huge fan of the playing, that tone is pretty tasty. Hard to go wrong with a nice Paul, a Friedman and BKPs. I liked the fluidity of the neck but it was less vintage voiced than the VHII.. I thought it was a bit of an odd pair. I liked the VHII bridge too. It has the PAF characteristics I'm looking for but it might be a little too focused in the bottom end for me. Cool clip though, thanks!

[ericsabbath]

Although no one has vouched for them I still think the Abraxas is an option. I do really enjoy a bridge pickup that has a bit more push than vintage voiced pickups but I love the original, PAF sound for the neck, which to me by the BKP description is the Abraxas. I also don't tune terribly low (D standard) on this guitar so having a ridiculously tight bridge pup isn't paramount, especially with the amp I'm using; I play through a 1981 Marshall JCM 800 2203.
I'm also very interested in trying the Alnico IV route. I have played Mules in a friend's PRS Spruce Hollowbody and I love the frequency balance, clarity and overall vibe, I just need a little more balls behind them, especially in the bridge.

I'm pretty sure a mule in a les paul has a lot more balls than in a PRS, specially the latter being a hollowbody
also, having it closer to strings makes it considerably meaty in a les paul, although it's not a FAT sounding pickup like a dimarzio 36th anniversary or black dog
honestly, after having tried a lot of bkp models and other brands, the mule was probably the bridge pup that surprised me the most
the level of detail and "juiciness" on the clean, crunch and mid gain sounds is absolutely amazing
the A4 seems to subtly melt the notes together in a very organic way, so it makes things creamy and thick but you still can hear the note separation
I'm not sure the abraxas can keep that sort of clarity, being hotter wound, but being a BKP, it can't be less than great

the vhII is hotter, but it's more noticeable in the picking attack, than actual sustain
it has a harder and edgier sound than the mule, you can tell where it comes from

the black dog is a much middier pup and a bit less open sounding in comparison, which delivers a more modern feel, like there's a wall of mids on chords and that half-c--ked crybaby effect on leads
it has a more imposing sound, rather than the transparency of the other mentioned models

you have a nice rig, by the way
that white '89 is really really rare
I know a guy that owns one just like yours, but I think it's the only one in my country
if you're pushing the JCM with any sort of boosting device, you won't miss anything from the mule

[Slartibartfarst42]

I don't envy you your choice here because you're looking at some really top drawer pickups. In due course I'll be putting a BKP bridge into my Les Paul copy and the Abraxas and Black Dog are both models I'm considering, though that clip AO posted a link to of the VHII was very tasty indeed. Much meatier than I anticipated. I can't fault your logic on the Abraxas bridge as it seems to be exactly what you say you want - a hotter Mule. The AIV magnet does seem to give it a rather softer and smoother response in the bass compared to the other pups you're considering, with the VHII and Black Dog both sounding more modern and cutting. I really do like the tone of that VHII but I also like the sound of the Black Dog being fat, middy and imposing. Whatever you do with the bridge, I think you'll like a Mule in the neck. I'd certainly like to read a detailed review of whatever you decide.

[sdgiffin]

I don't envy you your choice here because you're looking at some really top drawer pickups. In due course I'll be putting a BKP bridge into my Les Paul copy and the Abraxas and Black Dog are both models I'm considering, though that clip AO posted a link to of the VHII was very tasty indeed. Much meatier than I anticipated. I can't fault your logic on the Abraxas bridge as it seems to be exactly what you say you want - a hotter Mule. The AIV magnet does seem to give it a rather softer and smoother response in the bass compared to the other pups you're considering, with the VHII and Black Dog both sounding more modern and cutting. I really do like the tone of that VHII but I also like the sound of the Black Dog being fat, middy and imposing. Whatever you do with the bridge, I think you'll like a Mule in the neck. I'd certainly like to read a detailed review of whatever you decide.

Thanks for the input! I think I've narrowed my choices down to pickups that are pretty well balanced and open. I hoping to accurately represent the even but 3D sound of my LP without over accentuating any of the frequency ranges. I don't mind a little compression in the bridge pickup and more output, being able to drive the amp a little more in the bridge for rhythm playing without a pedal (BB Preamp used for leads) is pretty important. I think all but the Mule bridge will yield that result with the Abraxas on the other end of the spectrum.

As far as I know, I've never used an AIV pickup and it's very intriguing. My dad has a '63 Les Paul SG with the sidepull trem with the original PAFs and I've read that those could be AIVs, but not entirely sure.

Slartibartfarst42, you recommend the Mule in the neck, which has been a thought of mine from the start... Do you have any experience with the Mule neck vs the Abraxas neck? I don't mind mismatching but it is slightly cheaper to get a calibrated set (especially over here in Canada) and my assumption is that Tim made the pickup sets for a reason as they work best with each other. The Mule & Abraxas necks seem close in spec but the different gauge wire, and slightly different EQ curve obviously more fraternal twins than identical. What I do like about the Abraxas EQ chart is its slight push in the mid range compared to the Mule. Enhancing some of the guitar's inherent woodiness can't be a bad thing!

Decisions, decisions... When I make one, I'll 100% be writing a long, detailed review!

Thanks for everyone's input so far, I welcome more!

Scott

[Slartibartfarst42]

Firstly, the different wire gauge between the Mule and Abraxas only applies to the bridge models. The 43 AWG used on the Abraxas bridge is a more modern wire so tends to give it more cut, which is needed on a hotter wind that will naturally have more bass as a result. For the neck pickups, both use the same 42 AWG wire and are in fact, very similar. In actual fact, the Mule, Abraxas and Crawler neck pickups are all almost identical with the Mule being the brightest as it's the lightest wind. There will also be some minor differences in offsets. I have no direct experience of the Mule neck but I have had the very similar Crawler neck, which I found lacked enough cut. It was a lovely tone but a bit too rounded for my tastes. Tim tells me that the Mule neck feels quite different and should be more to my taste with it being that bit brighter and it's typical of the PAF tone you seem to like. Personally, my favourite neck pickup is the Emerald so I have the vintage PAF tone from the AIV magnet but it comes with the extra cut I like from the 43 AWG wire. Tim says that the Mule neck is the closest to that so it seemed reasonable to conclude that you'd like it, especially giving the bridge options you're considering, all of which have a slightly more modern feel. If it was me, I'd try either an Emerald or Holydiver neck if I was having the VHII or Black Dog bridge and go for the Mule neck if I was trying the Abraxas bridge. However, you're not me and based on what you've said so far (and not said) I just thought the Mule neck would be your cup of tea.  :D